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Prepare for the inevitable.
MRO Outsourced Maintenance
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eolesen
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How is including AA191 a misrepresentation of the facts? Because it's not in the past 10 years?...
Fact is that many international airlines have outsourced their overhauls for decades, and planes haven't been falling out of the sky.
Frankly, the notion that only a US based mechanic can overhaul an aircraft borders on xenophobia. It's right up there with questioning if aircraft assembled in Toulouse, Munich, Montreal or Sao Paolo are somehow less safe than one manufactured in Seattle (and that's why it is currently US law to disclose this on the briefing card...).
Fact is that many international airlines have outsourced their overhauls for decades, and planes haven't been falling out of the sky.
Frankly, the notion that only a US based mechanic can overhaul an aircraft borders on xenophobia. It's right up there with questioning if aircraft assembled in Toulouse, Munich, Montreal or Sao Paolo are somehow less safe than one manufactured in Seattle (and that's why it is currently US law to disclose this on the briefing card...).
Well lets see the AA flight at ORD was a approved procedure from MD that turned out to be faulty but lets take responsiblity for that one.
The UA plane was a faulty turbine disk that the NTSB found had a defect in it at the time it was produced their are a couple of inspectors in Tulsa that help develop the procedure to inspect for this possible defect in the future not our fault.
Alaska has outsourced large portions of it heavy maintenance for years including at the time of this crash.
The point is that mistakes can be made by anyone but the facts are the most experienced and qualified mechanics are in the US and Europe and the only reason to send a airplane to mexico, south america or china is to save money.
As far as the poltics go all we ask for is level playing field the goverment requires that all airlines in this country maintain drug testing and background checks be performed but that is not required of mechanics in other countries. it is required that you be able to read and understand english since this is the language that the manuals are written in. I could go on but it iwould be a waste of time.
telebender1956
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AA 191 was 31YEARS AGO and btw AA AMT's were using a maintenance procedure APPROVED BY McDonnell Douglas.
AS is the one that extended the maintenance intervals and was approved by the FAA. The professional AMT cannot get this approval and should not take the blame.
My link
To equate 3rd world "mechanics" who cannot even read English with the professional trained AMT in the U.S. is just plain ignorance.
Hopeful
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They are equating it because they want to justify giving their work to the lowest bidder.
chris perry
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This is true we follow the paperwork dictated by the FAA,engineering,planning,management,crewchiefs being the last one to assign the work. Its easy to see how it gets screwed up,everyone above has an opinion how it should be done. Its never black and white for the most parts. Grey areas everywhere,then add in some freezing weather,rain and wet feet and working for 4 hours pay on a holiday,it getting to where its just not worth it anymore....... I made close to the same money working on Rolls Royce,Jaguars in the 80's. Its pretty sad !!!!!!!!!!! I have always prefered aviation trained as a pilot,mechanic certified at both, just tired of the BS.... after 20 yrs ten of which were alright,the rest losing pay... If its so good in china send it AA stop threatening......Sick of hearing it
MCI transplant
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:huh: ------ Thing is chris, they don't want to send it to China. They'd rather send it to their MRO in IND!------- Or threaten to if they can't turn TUL into one!------- What I'm trying to say is that a lot of this is just a game of cat and mouse with them. It's contract time, and things aren't going as smoothly as they'd like. Therefore threats are in order. Psychological war fair if you may! Let's face it, if it were cheaper to outsource, the bean counters would have done so long ago!
Hopeful
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What is this MRO in IND you keep talking about?
AAR runs an MRO at the former UA facility at IND, but AAR is not related to AMR.
eolesen
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Guys, I know that the procedures & tolerances with AA, UA, and AS were approved, and the AMTs weren't responsible. Not everything is detectable or preventable.
But you also know damn well that if any of those accidents would have happened with an aircraft maintained outside the US, you guys would be scrambling all over each other to be the first one to blaming it on outsourcing.
I seriously doubt you'd give a mechanic from Colombia, El Salvador or Asia the same benefit of the doubt you are expecting for the guys at UA, AS, or AA. We saw it when NWA's "replacements" were still working the line. Everything that went wrong was blamed on the AMT's. Nobody ever considered blaming it on the lack of oversight or a manufacturer approved procedure...
But you also know damn well that if any of those accidents would have happened with an aircraft maintained outside the US, you guys would be scrambling all over each other to be the first one to blaming it on outsourcing.
I seriously doubt you'd give a mechanic from Colombia, El Salvador or Asia the same benefit of the doubt you are expecting for the guys at UA, AS, or AA. We saw it when NWA's "replacements" were still working the line. Everything that went wrong was blamed on the AMT's. Nobody ever considered blaming it on the lack of oversight or a manufacturer approved procedure...
Look I am sure that there are alot of quality mechanics in south america mexico and asia but the fact remains the experience and knowledge base is here you cannot overstate the importance of learning the trade from another mechanic with that experience, that is the mistake that the airlines are making today if you don't bring in young guys for us to train then you lose your knowledge base.
Secondly there are times when a A&P is the last line of defense against some fool , to keep him from releasing a aircraft that could be dangerous I have seen it on more than one occasion at AA myself so tell me are you confident that some unlicensed mechanic overseas can say no to a supervisor who says its going this is my fear of overseas maintenence,
Hopeful
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Let's not forget that in these overseas maintnenance facilities, labor laws are practically nil as well as labor protective provisions. What impact do you think the fear and intimidation factor have on those workers? You think they can call the FAA and complain about being forced to do something or sign something they know is wrong?
This is part of the whole outsourcing picture where most manufacturing jobs are sent to foreign lands because they have little or no environmental laws as well as cheap labor. And corporations in America get applauded for doing it, and in the case of AA, get criticized for not doing it.
The management of these companies get cheered and hurt their arms patting themselves on their backs because they did what they weren't allowed to do here...and that is skirt US environmental laws and labor laws..
But it's all ok in the name of profits.
And the biggest joke is the FAA oversight of these facilities. We rarely see an inspector as it is in the US, do you really think they're swarming all over foreign MRO's?
The FAA should not have the dual role of enforcing the rules and regulations of the aviation industry while at the same time promoting air travel.
Hopeful
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Let's not forget that in these overseas maintnenance facilities, labor laws are practically nil as well as labor protective provisions. What impact do you think the fear and intimidation factor have on those workers? You think they can call the FAA and complain about being forced to do something or sign something they know is wrong?
This is part of the whole outsourcing picture where most manufacturing jobs are sent to foreign lands because they have little or no environmental laws as well as cheap labor. And corporations in America get applauded for doing it, and in the case of AA, get criticized for not doing it.
The management of these companies get cheered and hurt their arms patting themselves on their backs because they did what they weren't allowed to do here...and that is skirt US environmental laws and labor laws..
But it's all ok in the name of profits.
And the biggest joke is the FAA oversight of these facilities. We rarely see an inspector as it is in the US, do you really think they're swarming all over foreign MRO's?
The FAA should not have the dual role of enforcing the rules and regulations of the aviation industry while at the same time promoting air travel.
MCI transplant
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Hopeful
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No relationship between AAR and AMR.
But you are correct about the threat of outsourcing and the T/A rejection. Changes are already underway in TUL to begin the transformation of that facility into an MRO at MRO wages. What is more interesting is the fact that you will now see AA begin the major push via threats of outsouring to go MRO.
Something changed over the last week that few people realize. This has to do with the democrats losing the House to republicans.
Rep. Oberstar, long considered a friend to airline labor and somewhat anti-management, will be replaced by a non-labor friendly chairman. There had been a push to limit and/or restrict the outsourcing of aircraft maintnenance by domestic carriers. Had this legislation come to pass, AA would have been ahead of the game and well positioned to deal with it because they still do in-house maintenance.
Now, it looks like the republicans will scrap that legislation and continue to destroy and eliminate more airline jobs to help the airlines.
So now you will see AMR begin the major campaign to threaten to outsource all heavy maintenance and at the same time threaten the TWU with the loss of thousands of union dues paying members.
What do you think the next T/A will include regarding outsourcing?
What do you think the TWU's reaction to this will be?
I know, do you?
But you are correct about the threat of outsourcing and the T/A rejection. Changes are already underway in TUL to begin the transformation of that facility into an MRO at MRO wages. What is more interesting is the fact that you will now see AA begin the major push via threats of outsouring to go MRO.
Something changed over the last week that few people realize. This has to do with the democrats losing the House to republicans.
Rep. Oberstar, long considered a friend to airline labor and somewhat anti-management, will be replaced by a non-labor friendly chairman. There had been a push to limit and/or restrict the outsourcing of aircraft maintnenance by domestic carriers. Had this legislation come to pass, AA would have been ahead of the game and well positioned to deal with it because they still do in-house maintenance.
Now, it looks like the republicans will scrap that legislation and continue to destroy and eliminate more airline jobs to help the airlines.
So now you will see AMR begin the major campaign to threaten to outsource all heavy maintenance and at the same time threaten the TWU with the loss of thousands of union dues paying members.
What do you think the next T/A will include regarding outsourcing?
What do you think the TWU's reaction to this will be?
I know, do you?
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