MRO Outsourced Maintenance

[Bob Owens]

Damn Hopeful, we're seeing more eye to eye every day!------- I agree totally! Both Parties have been guilty of outsourcing our economy for years! That's why we're in the mess we are today!!!------- But to dance to the tune of the Democratic party blindly, just because your committed to being a good Union member, is being more than a little naive!

Agreed, I've made my position clear many times before, both parties are owned by Corporate interests (I cant really say Corporate America anymore because they are Multinationals). We have "Bad Cop, Worse Cop", at least with the Democrats we may get some token thing in order to give the appearance that the working people of this country are represented in the political process, but when working people vote Republican its like that scene in Animal House when the pledge who is bent over getting paddled says "Thank you sir may I have another".

 

[eolesen]

But, deregulation is much more of a Republican position that a Democratic one. Get government off the backs of private industry! Let the free market work! And, all that. You know, just like Bush and company got government off the backs of banks, investment firms, and mortgage companies. And, look how well that worked.

Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. Yes, it was pushed by Republicans, but Clinton agreed to it as well. I don't think Bush was even an announced candidate at that point...

You can't have it both ways. Either there is government regulation of industry or there is not. You can't just insist on government regulation when it protects your job and your industry, but not when it protects/bails out someone else. If you are entitled to a government-guaranteed profit, then so is everyone else.

All the more reason that perhaps the Railway Labor Act should be dissolved. Airlines and railroads were both deregulated within two years of each other (the Staggers Act was signed in 1981).

The fact that government price protections through the CAB resulted in too many airlines, too many airplanes, and too many flights is just too bad. The airlines wanted deregulation and they got it because they thought that would allow them to raise ticket prices at will. No one thought that a really efficient, low-cost upstart airline like WN would last more than a year or so. Now, we have to live with the consequences.

That is revisionist history gone a little too far, Jim.... There was only one airline who supported deregulation. United. Everyone else was pretty much opposed to it. Here's Crandall's view on it during the Senate hearings:

"You [expletive] academic pinhead. You don't know [expletive]. You can't deregulate this industry. You're going to wreck it."

He said that to Bakes during a break, not during testimony.

That said, once deregulation was the law of the land, some carriers exploited it better than others. AA chose to move to DFW and re-invent its geography (AA's route structure prior to 1979 was heavily weighted towards the Northeast). Others, like Braniff, thought it would only last a few years before Congress re-regulated, so they over-did it.

 

[telebender1956]

But, deregulation is much more of a Republican position that a Democratic one. Get government off the backs of private industry! Let the free market work! And, all that. You know, just like Bush and company got government off the backs of banks, investment firms, and mortgage companies. And, look how well that worked.

You can't have it both ways. Either there is government regulation of industry or there is not. You can't just insist on government regulation when it protects your job and your industry, but not when it protects/bails out someone else. If you are entitled to a government-guaranteed profit, then so is everyone else.

The fact that government price protections through the CAB resulted in too many airlines, too many airplanes, and too many flights is just too bad. The airlines wanted deregulation and they got it because they thought that would allow them to raise ticket prices at will. No one thought that a really efficient, low-cost upstart airline like WN would last more than a year or so. Now, we have to live with the consequences.

Yours is the argument that Republicans have used to justify pork barrel earmarks--like Sen. Steven's (R-AK) famous Bridge to Nowhere. It is pork barrel only when proposed by a Democrat. It is an essential expenditure when proposed by a Republican.
You're saying that government deregulation is bad unless it keeps airfares artificially high then it's necessary. Well, no.

It wasn't just Bush and company but also a prominent Democrat named Barney Frank who left his fingerprints all over the Freddie Mac/Fannie MAE debacle. May I remind you that it was Ross Perot[big business] who strongly OPPOSED NAFTA. Pat Buchanan campaigned against cheap imports with no tariffs because he knew they would help wreck our economy.
You are badly mistaken if you think the Democrat Party is watching out for your job interests anymore than the Republicans.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- It seems both Party's have been spouting the praises of "Free Trade! Free Trade! Free Trade!"----- When in fact, they should have been legislating for "Fair Trade! Fair Trade! Fair Trade!" --------Anyone for a cup of Tea?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- It seems both Party's have been spouting the praises of "Free Trade! Free Trade! Free Trade!"----- When in fact, they should have been legislating for "Fair Trade! Fair Trade! Fair Trade!" --------Anyone for a cup of Tea? ----Or maybe two? 😀

 

[jimntx]

Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. Yes, it was pushed by Republicans, but Clinton agreed to it as well. I don't think Bush was even an announced candidate at that point...

Try reading what I wrote. Did I say Bush had a thing to do with Glass-Steagall? No, I did not. I was just saying that deregulation is a Republican mantra. I was simply giving the Bush "look the other way" treatment of Wall Street and the banks as another example of how well various industries "self-regulate" and how well the "free market" works with no government oversight. Much like Bush/Cheney and the lack of need to check on safety issues with the oil companies. (And, don't you try any "revisionist" history here, either. I worked in the oil business for 20 years and still have lots of contacts in Houston.) Most of my friends still in the industry admit that the ecological disaster in the Gulf was a direct result of the government looking the other way over the past few years on oil company safety issues. Case in point...Halliburton was involved. The original mud they pumped down the well to seal it that failed had failed 3 of 4 tests made on it. Yet BP and Halliburton decided to use it anyway because it was the cheapest. Do you remember who was in charge at Halliburton before Bush came to office? Yes, that's right. Darth Cheney. His legacy lives on.

And, my point was not really who was for or against airline deregulation. My point was some of the posters on here love to chant the Republican mottos as long as their particular job, mortgage or investments are not affected. Then it is the government's responbility to step in and make sure everyone plays fair. I think it's called hyprocrisy.

 

[Bob Owens]

Try reading what I wrote. Did I say Bush had a thing to do with Glass-Steagall? No, I did not. I was just saying that deregulation is a Republican mantra. I was simply giving the Bush "look the other way" treatment of Wall Street and the banks as another example of how well various industries "self-regulate" and how well the "free market" works with no government oversight. Much like Bush/Cheney and the lack of need to check on safety issues with the oil companies. (And, don't you try any "revisionist" history here, either. I worked in the oil business for 20 years and still have lots of contacts in Houston.) Most of my friends still in the industry admit that the ecological disaster in the Gulf was a direct result of the government looking the other way over the past few years on oil company safety issues. Case in point...Halliburton was involved. The original mud they pumped down the well to seal it that failed had failed 3 of 4 tests made on it. Yet BP and Halliburton decided to use it anyway because it was the cheapest. Do you remember who was in charge at Halliburton before Bush came to office? Yes, that's right. Darth Cheney. His legacy lives on.

And, my point was not really who was for or against airline deregulation. My point was some of the posters on here love to chant the Republican mottos as long as their particular job, mortgage or investments are not affected. Then it is the government's responbility to step in and make sure everyone plays fair. I think it's called hyprocrisy.

Funny how all these anti-regulation types have no problems with their pasttimes being heavily regulated. Maybe we should do away with umpires and refs as well? Self policing is no policing. In a competative enviornment a lack of rules and enforcement will always lead to disaster because the competitors are so engaged in competition they dont see when they are approaching the edge of the cliff.
BOT- When the airlines rushed into outsourcing they did so in a effort, ultimately, to lower their CASMs. Whether or not they have achieved that is undeterminable, in some cases their Maint costs went up. They have driven out thousands of skilled workers, the majority of whom have no intentions on returning so even if they wanted to bring all that work back in house they may not be able to. Parts of the industry, despite record unemployment have reported difficulty in recruiting the skilled workers needed and the FAA has only been issuing around 6000 maint certs for the entire aviation industry. AA has lowered the experience requirement for line maintenance to zero years because unlike the past they cant count on LCCs to train and supply mechanics to the majors. In many cases the LCCs pay more than the majors.
The airlines, with the help of the Federal Governments Bankruptcy courts, the NMB and the FAA have destroyed a profession, soon they will have to live with the results. As the economy improves it will embolden the best and brightest to leave at increased rates. Standards will continue to be lowered and our system will become as reliable and safe as those in third world countries.

For a long time now the FAA has been looking at fatigue as a cause for concern. The problem is fatigue and low wages go hand in hand. As mechanics saw thier real wages decline by 40% they had to work more hours to make up for that loss of pay. If the FAA were to crack down on duty time limits they would face resistance from both the mechanics who need the money to get by and the industry that needs the labor to operate. With thousands more leaving the industry every year than coming in the shortage, if mechanics were limited to hours like flight crews, would be acute now. In some cases unions, recognizing that they havent done a good job at getting a livable wage for a 40 hour week, built language into their contracts allowing workers the ability to work up to 4 16 hour shifts in a week! So far the only thing to come out of the FAA as far as mechanics and fatigue is posters that say they should get eight hours sleep every night, pretty hard to do when you are on the clock for 17 hours (inclusuve of unpaid meal periods) a day, figure two hours commuting and prep that only leaves 5 hours.

 

[eolesen]

Try reading what I wrote. Did I say Bush had a thing to do with Glass-Steagall? No, I did not. I was just saying that deregulation is a Republican mantra. I was simply giving the Bush "look the other way" treatment of Wall Street and the banks as another example of how well various industries "self-regulate" and how well the "free market" works with no government oversight. Much like Bush/Cheney and the lack of need to check on safety issues with the oil companies.

Bush had lots of company in the "look the other way" department, starting with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd... You blame the banks, but take it one step further back, and Freddie & Fannie are the dominoes which started it all. And that, too, tracks back to Clinton's tenure, because requiring racial data to be collected with mortgages was one of the concessions that Clinton and the Dems won for repealing Glass-Steagall...

And, my point was not really who was for or against airline deregulation. My point was some of the posters on here love to chant the Republican mottos as long as their particular job, mortgage or investments are not affected. Then it is the government's responbility to step in and make sure everyone plays fair. I think it's called hyprocrisy.

On that we agree.

 

[Mr Red]

Deregulation has been Republican battle cry for 30 years. Nothing butTerrible service,outrageous prices.
Take your pick, airlines,cable TV,phone company,colleges,oh ya we've seen how well it worked for WALL Street !!

 

[telebender1956]

Deregulation has been Republican battle cry for 30 years. Nothing butTerrible service,outrageous prices.
Take your pick, airlines,cable TV,phone company,colleges,oh ya we've seen how well it worked for WALL Street !!

Uh, deregulation and free trade has been a favorite battle cry of prominent Democrats also.
Remember Tom Daschle???

My link

 

[texasreb]

Uh, deregulation and free trade has been a favorite battle cry of prominent Democrats also.
Remember Tom Daschle???

My link

Thanks for the link! It helps to research before you vote.

 

[Mr Red]

33% isnt very good by Republican standards. Free Trade= Economic Treason !!!

 

[telebender1956]

33% isnt very good by Republican standards. Free Trade= Economic Treason !!!

A major league hitter is considered great when they have a .333 BA and Mr. Democrat Daschle batted .333 when he was in the major leagues [ U.S.Senate] A person could have 3 grenades in their pocket but it only takes ONE [.333] to do a lot of damage. Mr. Democrat Daschle did a lot of damage with a .333 average.

 

[Mr Red]

pathetic !

 

[BoeingBoy]

Deregulation has been Republican battle cry for 30 years.

You mean those Dems that controlled both houses of Congress and the White House when deregulation was adopted were really Republicans in Dem clothing? While deregulation may have been a Republican battle cry for 30 years, the Democrats were the foot soldiers that carried it out in many cases.

Jim