National is looking for new investors... again...

funguy2

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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[P]An aircraft leasing company backed out of a deal stalling N7''s reorg process again. Interesting that a $2MM letter of credit is holding up the entire $112MM deal.[/P]
[P]Las Vegas Sun:[/P]
[P][A href=http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/business/2002/oct/31/514189219.html]http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/business/2002/oct/31/514189219.html[/A][/P]
[P]Las Vegas Review Journal:[/P]
[P][A href=http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Oct-31-Thu-2002/business/19961519.html]http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Oct-31-Thu-2002/business/19961519.html[/A][/P]
[P] [/P]
 
Let me get this straight. You don't get $2 million from 1 company so the whole $112 million package is in jeopardy? Are they using Arthur Anderson accountants? That just doesn't make sense.
 
[P]Can anybody tell me why American Trans Air and National don't simply merge??? Both airlines operate RB-211 equipped 757s. Neither airline really overlaps the other. And both airlines essentially fly under the same marketing concept...[/P]
[P]Thoughts???[/P]
 
Hey ITrade sounds good to me...I always hated the ATA name anyway..National has a better image...Lets do it (with a nod toward Tone Loc - remember him? He, like National, has been before the bankruptcy judge in his day...
 
same marketing concept? you have got to be kidding me. Have you even flown National AND ATA? It's like comparing United First Suite to Coach in JetBlue...

ATA cattle cars passengers into its planes, National has *always* flown with more legroom, including in First. The airline also gives away meals on most (if not all) of its flights.

National first class is among the best in the skies.. I wish everyone could try them up front.. you'll pick N7 when you can if you do!

-n
 
There are indeed PRODUCT differences, but I think the two airlines' MARKETING efforts are similar -- that is, both are trying to get connecting transcon passengers by offering a much cheaper fare than the cartel airlines.

With that out of the way, there are a few reasons they won't merge. First, Mike Conway will not sell National or accept any deal that puts him out of a job. Second, no other airline would buy out National because no one wants a hub in LAS when the two biggest low-fare carriers in the country (LUV and AWA) already have hubs there. It's just not a formula for making money, which (along with Conway's incompetence) may be why National is in bankruptcy despite paying the lowest wages of any non-RJ airline.
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/3/2002 8:16:50 PM motnot wrote:
[P]There are indeed PRODUCT differences, but I think the two airlines' MARKETING efforts are similar -- that is, both are trying to get connecting transcon passengers by offering a much cheaper fare than the cartel airlines.[BR][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Exactly. Both carriers advertise themselves as alternate airlines even though one has a premium F class product.[/P]
 
[P]Motnot:[/P]
[P]You forgot that N7 has a rather motley assortment of B757's. While its all B757's, many of them came from different lessors and they are not standardized... At one point, the operated a 57 with over-wing emergency exits, which is fairly unusual, most have 4 full pax doors on both sides.[/P]
[P]And of course, this assumes that ATA wants to add capacity! Most carriers are not too excited about growth right now.[/P]
 
And with Jetblue jumping in the LAS-JFK market on January 7 with $99 fares, N7 will have to match the fare or lose the customers. The last thing that N7 needs is someone coming in and reducing fares/yields.
 
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/4/2002 3:35:06 PM coolflyingfool wrote:
[P]And with Jetblue jumping in the LAS-JFK market on January 7 with $99 fares, N7 will have to match the fare or lose the customers.  The last thing that N7 needs is someone coming in and reducing fares/yields.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]I would guess JB has been waiting for N7 to fold to make this announcement and just couldn't wait any longer. After all, its a natural market for them... with or without N7... But it would certainly be better without N7 (for JB).[/P]
[P]N7 isn't doing themselves any favors with $44 each way to Seattle and $79 each way Reno to the East over LAS.[/P]
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/4/2002 11:27:53 AM funguy2 wrote:


Motnot:[/P]
... At one point, the operated a 57 with over-wing emergency exits, which is fairly unusual, most have 4 full pax doors on both sides.[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

Not that unusual--AA alone has over a hundred of 'em!
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/5/2002 1:40:43 PM FlyAA777 wrote:

124 of the over-wing type, 27 of the behind the wing type to be exact!
----------------
[/blockquote]


Thanks for the exact figures. I'm assuming the behind the wing type are the ex-TW planes?
Funny, I've always considered the former (overwing exit) to be the standard, with the other type the oddball. Guess 'cause I see the former a lot more often.
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of how many of each version have been built by Boeing. I'd bet there's more of the former than the latter, especially among more recently built examples.
 
In the US & Mexico, here is who has which type

6 exits and 4 overwing exits
AA, DL, CO, NW, Aeromexico

8 Exits

US, HP, AA (ex-TWA), ATA, NW (ex-ATA), N7, Mexicana
British Airways also has this type

I like the later layout better, as it breaks up the coach cabin into 2 compartments. It also places the coach lavs in front of 2L and in front of 3L and 3R, so people don't bunch up by the rear galley.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/5/2002 9:55:31 PM phllax wrote:

In the US & Mexico, here is who has which type

6 exits and 4 overwing exits
AA, DL, CO, NW, Aeromexico

8 Exits

US, HP, AA (ex-TWA), ATA, NW (ex-ATA), N7, Mexicana
British Airways also has this type

----------------
[/blockquote]

I think there is one rather glaring omission here...
(hint: think dark blue and gray!)