Negotiations........why?

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

However, what I heard is most mechanics in TULE were very disinterested in AMFA and very little effort was made to campaign for them.

From my perspective, there wasn't any campaigning, and a lot of people didn't care on who would represent going forward. 

This just reinforces my stance on this issue.

 

[700UW]

T5 works for UA at either JFK or EWR and is a fleet service person, not a TUL AA mechanic.
 
He is an IAM member.

 

[swamt]

 
 
Also, the primary source of scabs during the NWA strike was AMFA represented AMTs. There were no plant maintenance scabs because all of their work was gone

This is where you are wrong again.  The primary source of scabs were from all the other unions on property at that time that were willing to cross a picket line to continue to go back to work and keep the company flying.  There were WAY more IAM, TWU as well as Pilots and F/A's that were willing to support the company and not the mechanics strike.  I will give kudos to one group and one group only, and they had nothing at all to do with NWA as employees.  As much as I cannot stand the teamsters union, it was the truckers that were refusing to cross the picket lines and deliver the goods.  We witnessed a many Teamster Truck drivers turn around and not deliver anytime there was a picket line at NWA.  This was the ONLY union group that was willing to support and not cross the picket line, and this group had nothing to do as employees of NWA.  Very sad to see all the other unions on property cross the picket lines, which was one of the major reasons why the AMFA strike failed at NWA.   Care to try and lie your way out of this one, try again with factual truths...

 

[Kev3188]

Agreed on the truck drivers. I know at one NW station, the AMT's set their line up at the freight facility, and everyone turned around.

In mine I suggested that to the AMFA rep, and also reminded him that the ramp parked there as well. But they decided it was better to follow the rules (my term), and set up where the airport authority told them to....

 

[Vortilon]

Not necessarily.

 
 
There will always be exceptions. 

 

[topDawg]

Realityck,
That being said, DL outsources almost all overhaul.

All airframe overhaul 
 

I don't know if DL does phase checks on the line. They may and if they do that would be like AA's LC we do in TUL.

no we don't. 
We do up to 15 day visits in the hangar. It depends aircraft from aircraft on how the work is done. 
The 320/757 go by the NW program. L-Check, L-Check, H-Check, L-Check, L-check, M-check. We do the Ls in house and the M/Hs are sent to a vendor. On the bus L checks are 7, 9 or 11 day visits. All done in the hangar. 
On the 737/777 they go by a Progressive Service Visit (PSV) system. I think they are numbered up to PSV14, with PSV14s being the heaviest and sent to a vendor. 
767s are pretty much the same as the 757. 
T-tails have short c-checks and overhauls. Overhauls are sent out. The short Cs are done in MSP. 3-5 days I think. 
330, I don't know what they are doing with them. This is the first year of them being in-house and they are done in MSP also. 
 

and the Trent will be done "in-house" at TAESL.

 When you say Trent, which one? I am assuming the 800
 

At Charlotte, Parker said 7% more than the top mechanic at Delta.  Last I heard Delta was at $42. But yes, Delta farms out , I have been told 50.1% of there work and yes they are non-union. There is no way the Association would allow themselves to be tricked into losing jobs for money. I did hear that the 737 fleet may increase as high as 600??

~36% for 2014. Drop from 42% in 2013. 
 
FWIW AA was at ~29% for 2014. (down just a little from 2013)
 
Also, AMT pay is $35.93 and the license pay is $2.13 for one and $4.26 for two. Line pay is 75 cents
 
so 38.06 in one license shops
40.19 in two license shops/ base MX hangar
40.94 for the line. 

 

[Overspeed]

topdawg,
Yes Trent 800 and RB211 is all that is done at TAESL. Word is that RR doesn't want to grow the facility so TAESL is probably on borrowed time.
 
If AA is at 29% then they are close to the cap. AA can't outsource much more then unless the TWU outsourcing rep Schiable misses it.

 

[Buck]

All airframe overhaul 
 
no we don't. 
We do up to 15 day visits in the hangar. It depends aircraft from aircraft on how the work is done. 
The 320/757 go by the NW program. L-Check, L-Check, H-Check, L-Check, L-check, M-check. We do the Ls in house and the M/Hs are sent to a vendor. On the bus L checks are 7, 9 or 11 day visits. All done in the hangar. 
On the 737/777 they go by a Progressive Service Visit (PSV) system. I think they are numbered up to PSV14, with PSV14s being the heaviest and sent to a vendor. 
767s are pretty much the same as the 757. 
T-tails have short c-checks and overhauls. Overhauls are sent out. The short Cs are done in MSP. 3-5 days I think. 
330, I don't know what they are doing with them. This is the first year of them being in-house and they are done in MSP also. 
 
 When you say Trent, which one? I am assuming the 800
 
~36% for 2014. Drop from 42% in 2013. 
 
FWIW AA was at ~29% for 2014. (down just a little from 2013)
 
Also, AMT pay is $35.93 and the license pay is $2.13 for one and $4.26 for two. Line pay is 75 cents
 
so 38.06 in one license shops
40.19 in two license shops/ base MX hangar
40.94 for the line. 

If I remember correctly, the IAM at USAir ended up in the last contract with a two license pay of $4.50 vs. AA of $5.00 while still maintaining more holidays and my guess other issues of difference. I believe part of Parkers statement was that no one is going to lose money??? 
 
What are the possibilities within the Association of having two different contracts?

 

[Buck]

topdawg,
Yes Trent 800 and RB211 is all that is done at TAESL. Word is that RR doesn't want to grow the facility so TAESL is probably on borrowed time.
 
If AA is at 29% then they are close to the cap. AA can't outsource much more then unless the TWU outsourcing rep Schiable misses it.

Why does that already sound like a personal attack?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

topdawg,
Yes Trent 800 and RB211 is all that is done at TAESL. Word is that RR doesn't want to grow the facility so TAESL is probably on borrowed time.
 
If AA is at 29% then they are close to the cap. AA can't outsource much more then unless the TWU outsourcing rep Schiable misses it.

29% of the maintenance budget right?   all the company has to do is increase budget spending to increase more outsourcing.    who in their right mind would tie outsourcing to the companies budget  by percentage?   The percentage can be manipulated so bad to hurt us.   Great job TWU in your contract language writing skills.

 

[700UW]

Not taking sides but being on the M&R Negotiating Committee when U.S. was in chapter 11 part two, it's nothing like section six negotiations.

Chuck show us any mechanics during the last rounds of bankruptcy that didn't suffer loss of a scope language.

Put the onus on the company on where it belongs.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Not taking sides but being on the M&R Negotiating Committee when U.S. was in chapter 11 part two, it's nothing like section six negotiations.

Chuck show us any mechanics during the last rounds of bankruptcy that didn't suffer loss of a scope language.

Put the onus on the company on where it belongs.

I would like to blame only then company but all our concessions came with the blessing of our representation and then blame us when concessions get voted in by the narrowest of margins.
 
we set the bar lower for the industry every time we negotiated, whether the company was making millions or losing millions we still gave concessions and no snap back or retro

 

[Realityck]

This is where you are wrong again.  The primary source of scabs were from all the other unions on property at that time that were willing to cross a picket line to continue to go back to work and keep the company flying.  There were WAY more IAM, TWU as well as Pilots and F/A's that were willing to support the company and not the mechanics strike.  I will give kudos to one group and one group only, and they had nothing at all to do with NWA as employees.  As much as I cannot stand the teamsters union, it was the truckers that were refusing to cross the picket lines and deliver the goods.  We witnessed a many Teamster Truck drivers turn around and not deliver anytime there was a picket line at NWA.  This was the ONLY union group that was willing to support and not cross the picket line, and this group had nothing to do as employees of NWA.  Very sad to see all the other unions on property cross the picket lines, which was one of the major reasons why the AMFA strike failed at NWA.   Care to try and lie your way out of this one, try again with factual truths...

 
 
1. Let’s see now, for the last 40 years AMFA attempted repeated raids against the IAM and TWU yet you believe that both Unions should have stood behind them. You’ve got to be kidding
 
2. I don’t recall any Pilot group honoring a picket line unless it was their own. Eastern was an exception since Lorenzo was a threat to them as well as the IAM.
 
3. The NWA Flight Attendants were in a Seham orchestrated *independent Union and even they ignored their AMFA brethren.
 
            *An independent non AFL-CIO affiliate, the PFAA rank and file voted
            not to support the strike by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association
 
 
“Since NWA shut the doors of its Minneapolis maintenance facility and contracted out janitorial and
cabin cleaning jobs, few expect many of the 4400 original strikers to be recalled. All 800 mechanics
who crossed picket lines, mostly AMFA members, will remain working and cannot be displaced by
strikers according to the tentative agreement. It is a tragic end to a dismal chapter of failed AMFA
leadership and strategy.
 
Most unions considered the strike ill conceived from the very beginning. AMFA had no strike fund
and, reflecting its separatist philosophy of mechanics acting alone, went on strike while the Pilots,
Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court
proceedings. AMFA bolted ahead of all the other unions, characteristic of their often-stated mantra
that "strength in numbers doesn't necessarily mean strength. " This was the wisdom offered by
AMFA Assistant National Director Steve MacFarlane on the eve of the August 2005 strike. He
couldn't have been more wrong.
 
Underestimating solidarity with other unions on the property was only one of AMFA's strategic
mistakes. Extremely damaging to unity with other unions was AMFA's negotiating proposal that
NWA take more concessions from IAM members and less from AMFA members. As reported by
Robert Roach Jr., IAMAW General Vice- President Transportation: "AMFA, as an institution, has
proposed and is actively advocating, that Northwest Airlines demand $150,000,000 more [from IAM
members] in concessions than the $107,000,000 Northwest has requested from our membership. "
While AMFA supporters dismiss these claims as slander, most 'unskilled' airline workers who have
been the target of AMFA's scorn since their formation in 1962, are not at all surprised by AMFA's
breach of solidarity at NWA during the 2005 summer contract negotiations. In fact, this breakdown
in solidarity is exactly what occurred only a few months earlier in an AMFA settlement with United
Airlines that directly led to 550 IAM jobs being contracted out. As a result of complex legal
proceedings between AMFA and the IAM over the jobs in question, AMFA negotiators demanded
and received from UAL financial 'credits' for this IAM job loss; thus increasing the hardship on fellow
workers, IAM members, but reducing concessions of AMFA mechanics”.

 

[Kev3188]

Flight Attendants and Machinists' Union were still negotiating under pressures of bankruptcy court

This is inaccurate; we were not yet in BK when AMFA struck. That happened about a month later, with Section 1113 talks later still.

The AMFA had a CBA imposed on it in December of that year.

 

[700UW]

Kevin the minute AMFA on strike after the 30 day cooling off period ended NW imposed a CBA per the RLA. That is one thing why the strike occurred because NW imposed immediately.