Negotiations........why?

[bob@las-AA]

I honestly hope you guys do get ILC, but I do not think you guys will get it with the representation you all have...

I think we will, but if history repeats its will be a short lived JCBA, like the one they had in the blue book in 2001.

 

[DallasConehead]

I think we will, but if history repeats its will be a short lived JCBA, like the one they had in the blue book in 2001.
 

AA is already pulling back, deferring deliveries and stop painting new livery. Plus with the ass stalling, the glory days are coming to an end and as usual with our representation, we are going to come out on the short end of the stick. Accept it and move on.

 

[1AA]

Pro Lne AMT

That's your problem. You push the division between the line and overhaul. The rest of us are pro-amt. Your the problem. You hate Peterson and 591. Get over it and move on to support our profession. We will NEVER get a decent JCBA. We have more division now then ever before. We have AA line vs overhaul, we have USAir line vs overhaul, we have TWU vs IAM, We have AA vs USAir. We have AA line vs USAir line, we have AA overhaul vs USAir overhaul. The one thing we have is two disfunctional unions capable of giving more concessions and selling it to the membership with threats and intimidation. We will never come together as one group of professionals because we have to have professional union leadership to support the profession. It just won't happen with the TWU or IAM. Call it a union or association. No difference from past union practices. We are screwed and will continue to be screwed as long as our fellow union members continue to be in denial to reality.

 

[700UW]

AA is already pulling back, deferring deliveries and stop painting new livery. Plus with the ass stalling, the glory days are coming to an end and as usual with our representation, we are going to come out on the short end of the stick. Accept it and move on.

They painting is suspended for the BUSY summer season, planes make money flying, not in the paint shop, the only reason is they need the capacity, nothing more.

 

[DallasConehead]

They painting is suspended for the BUSY summer season, planes make money flying, not in the paint shop, the only reason is they need the capacity, nothing more.

This and defer orders on new airplanes.

 

[700UW]

Once the season ends the planes will be painted again, and they are still getting 737MAX and A320CEO family, they delayed the A320 NEO Family.
 
787s some were pushed back and A359s will be coming in 2017 I believe.

 

[Overspeed]

1AA,
Pro Line AMT mentality is all of our problem. I do and have always supported the AMT profession regardless of where they are based. I have read hear repeatedly about what TUL did to screw us, it's the TWU's fault for not telling TUL they should take less, TUL will feel the pain now as work moves out, etc... Is that my rhetoric? No. We read that crap from people in 591 which is odd since many of them, including GP worked there. Several on the current 591 executive board were even former fleet service clerks and came up through the junior mechanic program. So what happened to them? Did they forget their roots?

 

[1AA]

1AA,
Pro Line AMT mentality is all of our problem. I do and have always supported the AMT profession regardless of where they are based. I have read hear repeatedly about what TUL did to screw us, it's the TWU's fault for not telling TUL they should take less, TUL will feel the pain now as work moves out, etc... Is that my rhetoric? No. We read that crap from people in 591 which is odd since many of them, including GP worked there. Several on the current 591 executive board were even former fleet service clerks and came up through the junior mechanic program. So what happened to them? Did they forget their roots?

It is the unions fault. Local 514 created the division and many believed in the lies and intimidation. It gave a false sense of security to the overhaul people. Now look what has happened? I put the blame squarely on 514. Who is suffering now? Us the members. All the members and yet 514 and the twu are sitting back victorious over the association being rubber stamped. The unions lies over and over and yet we keep getting screwed. Wake up!! The unions are too blame. They prey on the weak minded full of fear and go along with the threats of losing work and jobs.

 

[Realityck]

So everything I posted in post #198 is still true and your previous post was all false.  Way to avoid the facts that YOU started with...

 
 
 
SWAMT: If you can back up your “false” statement with actual documentation, do it. BTW, that was a pretty lame (hear no evil – see no evil) response on your part.                       
 
1. Let’s see now, for the last 40 years AMFA attempted repeated raids against the IAM and TWU yet you believe that both Unions should have stood behind them.
 
                        TRUE – Based on written record
             
2. I don’t recall any Pilot group honoring a picket line unless it was their own. Eastern was an exception since Lorenzo was a threat to them as well as the IAM.
 
                        TRUE – Based on historical record
 
3. The NWA Flight Attendants were in a Seham orchestrated *independent Union and even they ignored their AMFA brethren.
 
            *An independent non AFL-CIO affiliate, the PFAA rank and file voted
            not to support the strike by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association
 
                        TRUE:
 
*An AMFA offshoot, the Professional Flight Attendants Association (PFAA), was dumped in 2006 by 69% of 9000 flights attendants at NWA after only three years. 
 
 
                        The final synopsis was based on Newspaper Reports,
                        Industry Observers statements, and Union Documents
 
 
            I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.
 
            Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA was unprepared and Delle was forced into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

 

[Overspeed]

1AA,
I agree we are all suffering. I disagreed with the 2003 concessions just as I am sure you did. I do believe BK was real possibility especially with Carty at the controls (I try to think of one good thing he did for AMR and I just can't come up with one). I think we could have done more to protect wages and benefits.

 

[1AA]

1AA,
I agree we are all suffering. I disagreed with the 2003 concessions just as I am sure you did. I do believe BK was real possibility especially with Carty at the controls (I try to think of one good thing he did for AMR and I just can't come up with one). I think we could have done more to protect wages and benefits.

The one good thing he did for AMR not the employees was Executive Compensation.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

(I try to think of one good thing he did for AMR and I just can't come up with one). 

He left.

 

[Buck]

I guess if tradition holds true we might have an increase in the number of AMT's, especially in TULE. To cross thread for a moment and bring in that the Tulsa Warehouse could go to DFW, then traditionally all of those Title 2 members will be offered AMT positions...... 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

SWAMT: If you can back up your “false” statement with actual documentation, do it. BTW, that was a pretty lame (hear no evil – see no evil) response on your part.                       
 
1. Let’s see now, for the last 40 years AMFA attempted repeated raids against the IAM and TWU yet you believe that both Unions should have stood behind them.
 
                        TRUE – Based on written record         

 
FALSE - Based on Actual FACT
 
AMFA hasn't attempted "raids" - AMFA has no paid organizers - the campaigns you mention were grassroots efforts of Mechanics & Related who did and continue to take issue with the lack of democracy and accountability in unions like the IAM, TWU etc.
 
And "YES" they should expect the IAM and TWU to stand behind them when going up against the company.  There will always be inter union politics - the IAM TWU and all the others that crossed the line obviously forgot that.  Go ahead and sling crap at each other all day long, but when a picket line goes up - YOU DO NOT CROSS.

 

2. I don’t recall any Pilot group honoring a picket line unless it was their own. Eastern was an exception since Lorenzo was a threat to them as well as the IAM.
 
                        TRUE – Based on historical record
 
 

 
FALSE - Based on Actual FACT
 
Less than 2 minutes and a good search engine -

UPS Pilots Honor Teamster Canada Strike
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ups-pilots-honor-teamster-canada-strike-75519167.html
 
 

3. The NWA Flight Attendants were in a Seham orchestrated *independent Union and even they ignored their AMFA brethren.
 
            *An independent non AFL-CIO affiliate, the PFAA rank and file voted
            not to support the strike by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association
 
                        TRUE:
 

 
FALSE - Based on Actual FACT (and you basically contradicting your own post)
 
While PFAA was just as guilty for crossing the line they at least put the matter to a vote of their respective membership, hence they obviously took the matter seriously and were not ignoring AMFA.
 
Did the IAM or the TWU poll their memberships?  No
 
As for PFAA's formation - Seham "orchestrated" nothing - he may have provided counsel but he most certainly didn't form the union.
 
Again - 2 minutes and a good search engine

Teamsters Denounce Raid on Northwest Flight Attendants
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/teamsters-denounce-raid-on-northwest-flight-attendants-77914317.html

"...The PFAA was formed by a group of dissident union members who have been unsuccessful in their attempts to gain Local 2000 office..."

        

            I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.
 
            Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA was unprepared and Delle was forced into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.
 

 
I'm just curious how many more time you're going to blow the dust off this piece - you or one of the other TWU sycophants seems to post it at least once a year - hate AMFA all you like but at least try and come up with  something original once in awhile.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

stop making this an AMFA debate and defend the TWU and the association and how great
they have done for our profession and what they will do in the JCBA to provide us with an industry leading contract with no concessions.  lets start with that shall we?