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New APFA Survey

Skymess

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This one's another hoot. Trying to involuntarily waive our 30/7? Sounds like a good idea, how? How is this going to reduce our reserve list and for whom? So the rest of us could sit like good little monkeys so one of us could hold off. Right.

APFA is sca-ry.

http://www.apfa.org/content/category/235/422/731/
 
How about the question of invalidating your reserve month if your vacation falls that month? APFA is just clueless....
 
Well, you know the 30 year f/a is in no danger having to do reserve; so, I fail to see why you even think this should be an issue. If it doesn't affect the senior f/a, it is of no concern to the APFA.
 
Well, you know the 30 year f/a is in no danger having to do reserve; so, I fail to see why you even think this should be an issue. If it doesn't affect the senior f/a, it is of no concern to the APFA.


Or....we could go back to the way it was done for decades and that is, regardless of category, all FAs who have a schedule conflict at the beginning of the month literally go on reserve for the first 5-7 days of the month where Crew Sked can plot whatever they want on those days.

Does that make junior FAs happy? Because, if you are senior enough to hold a bid free of schedule conflict, then you have no worries. It does reduce the amount of trips you may want to bid.

Ever since we got rid of the schedule conflict obligation, reserves, out of base flying, reassignments, reschedules, etc., have all gone up. Also, reserves get DHD'd on the last day of the month to another base to layover and cover flying out of that base the next day which literally makes them a reserve for the next month. All due to schedule conflicts at the beginning of the month. Many then lose their bid flying in the first week of the new month and have to scramble to try and get the time back. We all know how difficult picking up flying is right now.

Negotiations is about trying to find solutions to very difficult scheduling issues while trying to protect our work rules. As we all continue to learn, every new solution creates a whole new set of problems. Always has and always will. The goal is to try and figure out what those new problems are ahead of time. Hence, the surveys.

Good for APFA for asking the members what they think....ahead of time.

Your choice: participate or not.

And for pete's sake stop thinking that there are any miracles out there. Get real and get with it. I'm so sick of the undermining by the same people day in and day out.

There are those out there that view the VTF test as some secret deal that aids AA, yada yada yada. The VTS was NOT supported by AA. It is done as a test to gather statistics for APFA and to prove, hopefully, to AA that FAs will "volunteer" to fly for more money and to reduce reserves. The mere fact that AA was willing to pay a reserve ON TOP of guarantee was huge, if only for 6 or 8 weeks.

Again, the test was to gather statistics. How anyone could create a conspiracy out of this just boggles the mind.

I wish we had it at my base. I would have loved the opportunity to bump up my paycheck. In that so many FAs have turned our contract over to the bad TT services and forced the buying of trips out of open time to make any money and have violated our oder of open time continually and have put the good TT services in harm's way, it would have been nice to not have to PAY for work. Oh well. I guess the new belief is those WITH money get to MAKE money around here or get their choice of base....if they PAY for it.

Of course, our contract doesn't allow for that but why honor the contract?

Anyone who has paid for an illegal trip out of open time or a place at a base out of seniority has created a huge hurdle for the APFA negotiators and has violated their fellow FA's rights and has completely undermined the collective bargaing of a union.

OK, rant over.
 
How about the question of invalidating your reserve month if your vacation falls that month? APFA is just clueless....


I agree with not discounting one's reserve rotation because of VC. And, that is what I input on the survey.

Once upon a time, NO ONE would deliberately bid their vacation on a reserve month and that was all seniorities. Reserve was very senior at some bases. It was just considered a huge waste of a vacation. But, things have changed, and people do bid their VC on a reserve month. Inevitably, that does increase the amount of FAs on reserve. If it is a more junior vacation month, then reserves will go up due to the fact that a reserve on VC has to be covered by another VC.

My guess is that discounting a reserve rotation is coming from management and APFA is looking for numbers to show that it would never pass a vote of the membership.
 
I agree with not discounting one's reserve rotation because of VC. And, that is what I input on the survey.

Once upon a time, NO ONE would deliberately bid their vacation on a reserve month and that was all seniorities. Reserve was very senior at some bases. It was just considered a huge waste of a vacation. But, things have changed, and people do bid their VC on a reserve month. Inevitably, that does increase the amount of FAs on reserve. If it is a more junior vacation month, then reserves will go up due to the fact that a reserve on VC has to be covered by another VC.

My guess is that discounting a reserve rotation is coming from management and APFA is looking for numbers to show that it would never pass a vote of the membership.

Not counting on reserve is a great idea.....because it violates seniority. Here is the scenario......A junior f/a gets to set up one or two months of reserve in conjunction with vacation.

A more senior flight attendant who hovers on the edge of reserve....(does not serve it regularly but does every now and then.) does not get to set up their months this way.

So unless they let a more senior f/a bid onto reserve on a vacation month and have it count, then by all means don't let them count the reserve month for junior people if vacation falls on their rotation. Radical view.....yes......but I have even more radical ones.!!!!!

It comes down to this.....if you can bid vacation onto a reserve month and have it count then it too should count if I decide to bid reserve on a vacation month. It's only fair.

Butch
 
Or....we could go back to the way it was done for decades and that is, regardless of category, all FAs who have a schedule conflict at the beginning of the month literally go on reserve for the first 5-7 days of the month where Crew Sked can plot whatever they want on those days.

Does that make junior FAs happy? Because, if you are senior enough to hold a bid free of schedule conflict, then you have no worries. It does reduce the amount of trips you may want to bid.

Ever since we got rid of the schedule conflict obligation, reserves, out of base flying, reassignments, reschedules, etc., have all gone up. Also, reserves get DHD'd on the last day of the month to another base to layover and cover flying out of that base the next day which literally makes them a reserve for the next month. All due to schedule conflicts at the beginning of the month. Many then lose their bid flying in the first week of the new month and have to scramble to try and get the time back. We all know how difficult picking up flying is right now.

Negotiations is about trying to find solutions to very difficult scheduling issues while trying to protect our work rules. As we all continue to learn, every new solution creates a whole new set of problems. Always has and always will. The goal is to try and figure out what those new problems are ahead of time. Hence, the surveys.

Good for APFA for asking the members what they think....ahead of time.

Your choice: participate or not.

And for pete's sake stop thinking that there are any miracles out there. Get real and get with it. I'm so sick of the undermining by the same people day in and day out.

There are those out there that view the VTF test as some secret deal that aids AA, yada yada yada. The VTS was NOT supported by AA. It is done as a test to gather statistics for APFA and to prove, hopefully, to AA that FAs will "volunteer" to fly for more money and to reduce reserves. The mere fact that AA was willing to pay a reserve ON TOP of guarantee was huge, if only for 6 or 8 weeks.

Again, the test was to gather statistics. How anyone could create a conspiracy out of this just boggles the mind.

I wish we had it at my base. I would have loved the opportunity to bump up my paycheck. In that so many FAs have turned our contract over to the bad TT services and forced the buying of trips out of open time to make any money and have violated our oder of open time continually and have put the good TT services in harm's way, it would have been nice to not have to PAY for work. Oh well. I guess the new belief is those WITH money get to MAKE money around here or get their choice of base....if they PAY for it.

Of course, our contract doesn't allow for that but why honor the contract?

Anyone who has paid for an illegal trip out of open time or a place at a base out of seniority has created a huge hurdle for the APFA negotiators and has violated their fellow FA's rights and has completely undermined the collective bargaing of a union.

OK, rant over.
Very well said and thank you for bringing up some very real points about negotiations.... F/As sometimes get going in so many different directions and forget to focus on whats at hand....
 
So a junior F/A who can't hold any other vacation but in their reserve month should be punished for this fact and have to serve reserve 2 months in a row? As an example, lets say a CM speaker who has 2 weeks of vacation, but almost zero choice of where it falls. It isn't their fault that they might be plotted vacation on their reserve months. This also changes their rotations and doesn't allow any sort of continuity to their months. They would continue to serve different months under this scenario. Sounds like a bad idea to me.
 
I hadn't thought of that issue--since I won't live long enough to proffer for International. :lol: For most domestic junior f/as, holding vacation in a reserve month is our only hope of getting much in the way of vacation pay. Since we seemed to be doomed to hold either reserve or availability (glorified reserve) for the forseeable future, I can tell you that those who have an availability line on their vacation month get screwed royally by scheduling. A f/a at SLT who had vacation in October and was on availability had an availability line built for her that had 9 days off during her 14 day vacation block.

I can't remember how many hours are credited for a vacation day, but let's say it's 4. She went into the month with only 20 hours in her GTD for the vacation days that weren't days off. That meant that scheduling could fly her to death on her "on days" that weren't during the vacation block (particularly since most of her "on" days fell outside her vacation block).

I have been on the November-March-July rotation as long as I have been a f/a (both pre- and post-furlough). I have always bid my 2 weeks vacation for March CD and have always been able to hold it (imagine that!). My birthday is in late March. For years a friend whose birthday is in the same timeframe and I have gone skiing to celebrate our birthdays. Having vacation in my reserve month meant that I could bid one of those less desirable reserve lines (good for the last days of the month, etc) which maximized my vacation pay. I got bumped off reserve in November. Not being able to bid onto reserve in March and have it count as my reserve month means that I will probably be screwed over on vacation credit hours like everyone else who has an avbl line on their vacation month.

It would really help if the APFA would either pressure the company to put availability lines back on the bidsheet where we would at least have a shot at bidding an advantageous line in our vacation months or pressure the company to stop the practice of screwing the junior f/as out of vacation pay. Please excuse me if I don't hold my breath until either of those events comes to pass.
 
So a junior F/A who can't hold any other vacation but in their reserve month should be punished for this fact and have to serve reserve 2 months in a row? As an example, lets say a CM speaker who has 2 weeks of vacation, but almost zero choice of where it falls. It isn't their fault that they might be plotted vacation on their reserve months. This also changes their rotations and doesn't allow any sort of continuity to their months. They would continue to serve different months under this scenario. Sounds like a bad idea to me.
Those are the breaks as they say. Reserve is JR, and sorry if they dont get first choice on vacation or reserve rotation. We could always go back to straight reserve. Things could always be worse and we always to make things better. There are options like SR bump if someone wanted to avoid a reserve in a vacation month. As for continuity talk to the people at the top of the list who are thrown on and off based on man power. Sometimes being SR.,JR. can be as bad or worse than just JR.

After all folks this is a survey. It is not a negotiations plan or starting point.
 
This one's another hoot. Trying to involuntarily waive our 30/7? Sounds like a good idea, how? How is this going to reduce our reserve list and for whom? So the rest of us could sit like good little monkeys so one of us could hold off. Right.

APFA is sca-ry.

http://www.apfa.org/content/category/235/422/731/


If 30/7 were waived the number of rsv needed by crew skd would be lower. The biggest 30/7 issue is beginning of the contractual month. Crew skd has to release lots of rsvs due to 30/7.
 
If 30/7 were waived the number of rsv needed by crew skd would be lower. The biggest 30/7 issue is beginning of the contractual month. Crew skd has to release lots of rsvs due to 30/7.

Wondered where you were! A good compromise would be the f/a would have control over waiving 30/7.
 
Wondered where you were! A good compromise would be the f/a would have control over waiving 30/7.


AA fired me in Apr. I finally ran out of options to get my job back to I revived my old user name.

FA's are in control over their 30/7 so I don't think that would be a compromise. How about a lottery where 50% waive and the rest don't or 50% waive first part of month and 50% waive last part of the month? Not sure how that would affect your trades/hours stuff like that.
 
AA fired me in Apr. I finally ran out of options to get my job back to I revived my old user name.

FA's are in control over their 30/7 so I don't think that would be a compromise. How about a lottery where 50% waive and the rest don't or 50% waive first part of month and 50% waive last part of the month? Not sure how that would affect your trades/hours stuff like that.

sorry you got fired.
 

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