New low for the TWU...IMO

[Socplat13]

Anomaly states he is no trying to defend Jim Little. What do you call it then. AA is shipping its 777 work over seas our 757 work is going out of house. Southwest is hiring mechanics and not just fill the bare minumum in cities that nobody wanted in the AFW RIF. They are in the process of bringing back one of their C check lines now that they are getting more people. Jim Little was doing the typical TWU misdirection waving his right hand while picking your pocket with his left. The FA's at Southwest did not support his statement nor did any other group at Southwest. Maintenance had nothing to do with what happened, A 737 is not meant to landed NOSE FIRST!!!!! Anomaly put the Kool-Aid down and step away from the punch bowl.

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, there are approximately 3 AMTs per aircraft at SWA. At AA, according to the BTS, there are approximately 28. The bottom line is, no airline gets to SWA because of two things: (1) Its cost structure and business model allows for the highest unit labor costs in the industry but SWA maintains among the lowest unit total costs; (2) The outsourcing permitted on the AMT side.

At United in 2003, practically all of the UA AMTs with mid 1990s seniority supported AMFA because of its "show me the money" pitch. Sadly, two years later NONE of them were around. Many move south to work for vendors like TIMCO or just quit the trade altogether.

The AMTs at the new AA will get their slice. Consolidation has provided financial stability and therefore leverage for labor. The AA AMTs would be wise to stick with the IAM-TWU alliance because they will probably be around $40 per hour all-in with the option for the IAM pension plan. Win-win if you ask me.

The IBT is by far the worst union I have been involved with: poor representation, no democracy, nothing. PHL AMTs have to go to NYC if they want to go to a union meeting. They haven't recovered any of what was lost, going back to 2002. AMFA was democratic but no resources, nada. AMFA was pushed around at UA. IAM, while having its issues for sure, was the best out of the three.

Sometimes the problems you don't see are far worse than the ones you do.

 

[swamt]

His statement doesn't even deserve a response. Just shows he just as clueless and Little is. But we all already knew this.

 

[Tex-Mech]

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, there are approximately 3 AMTs per aircraft at SWA. At AA, according to the BTS, there are approximately 28.

That would mean that there are 17,024 mechanics on the seniority list today for the 608 aircraft, when in fact there are less than 7,000 A&P's and dropping. I guess when you throw in all the cheap foreign outsourced labor that work on these same airplanes, it could be 28 total.

 

[Overspeed]

That would mean that there are 17,024 mechanics on the seniority list today for the 608 aircraft, when in fact there are less than 7,000 A&P's and dropping. I guess when you throw in all the cheap foreign outsourced labor that work on these same airplanes, it could be 28 total.

The inhouse numbers I see on the ADP website are 21.4 to 1 and 597 aircraft for 2012. There is no 2013 numbers. Pretty sure that ratio includes management, title 2, and stores.

 

[Anomaly]

According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, there are approximately 3 AMTs per aircraft at SWA. At AA, according to the BTS, there are approximately 28. The bottom line is, no airline gets to SWA because of two things: (1) Its cost structure and business model allows for the highest unit labor costs in the industry but SWA maintains among the lowest unit total costs; (2) The outsourcing permitted on the AMT side.

At United in 2003, practically all of the UA AMTs with mid 1990s seniority supported AMFA because of its "show me the money" pitch. Sadly, two years later NONE of them were around. Many move south to work for vendors like TIMCO or just quit the trade altogether.

The AMTs at the new AA will get their slice. Consolidation has provided financial stability and therefore leverage for labor. The AA AMTs would be wise to stick with the IAM-TWU alliance because they will probably be around $40 per hour all-in with the option for the IAM pension plan. Win-win if you ask me.

The IBT is by far the worst union I have been involved with: poor representation, no democracy, nothing. PHL AMTs have to go to NYC if they want to go to a union meeting. They haven't recovered any of what was lost, going back to 2002. AMFA was democratic but no resources, nada. AMFA was pushed around at UA. IAM, while having its issues for sure, was the best out of the three.

Sometimes the problems you don't see are far worse than the ones you do.

You started off well, and then went downhill...

But while I might disagree with your view on the IAM vs the IBT, I do appreciate your intelligence in understanding the meaning behind my post. Little's statement may have been incorrectly timed and insensitive, but maintenance outsourcing is a threat seen by mechanics everyday. I would rather hut some feelings than pretend the problem does not exist.

 

[Bob Owens]

You started off well, and then went downhill...

But while I might disagree with your view on the IAM vs the IBT, I do appreciate your intelligence in understanding the meaning behind my post. Little's statement may have been incorrectly timed and insensitive, but maintenance outsourcing is a threat seen by mechanics everyday. I would rather hut some feelings than pretend the problem does not exist.

Yes but why did Little not only push a deal that gave us the worst contract in the Industry but also allowed unlimited foreign outsourcing of overhaul and increased foreign outsourcing of line maintenance? It was not only poorly timed and insensitive but also hypocritical. At least if Little had demanded caps on foreign outsourcing at AA, which I will give the IBT credit for, IIRC even the UPS contract at $50/hr limits foreign outsourcing, our guys would be competing with other Americans for the work and not very low paid foreigners. (You are constantly criticizing AMFA for doing what IBT Local 2727, the only IBT Local for only Aircraft mechanics, does, agreeing to outsource in exchange for industry leading wages and job protection for current members) With the supply of aircraft mechanics dwindling even the US based chop shops would have to increase wages or lose the ability to do the work. Little pretended like the problem was isolated to WN when in fact he is responsible for making it even worse. Had Little pushed for such caps then maybe the IBT and TWU would have better luck organizing those shops in the future than they have in the past. Maybe Hoffa saw the AA deal with unlimited foreign outsourcing of overhaul as Little stabbing him in the back instead of the other way around?

 

[Bob Owens]

Southwest is hiring mechanics and not just fill the bare minumum in cities that nobody wanted in the AFW RIF.

For those who were riffed by AA and hired by WN getting laid off was probably the best thing that ever happened to them! As I said many times before if WN put maint in ISP I would do my best to be the first in line for an application and I would quit AA without a second thought if I was hired. As it is I receive no medical benefits from AA, I get only 20 hours extra pay if I work all ten Holidays that WN recognizes vs the 120 extra pay WN mechanics receive for working those Holidays. Sure I get five weeks vacation after 27 years with AA and would have to start with just two weeks at WN but hours wise, due to the Holidays I would only be losing 20 hours of PTO which would be more than offset by the amount of sick time SWA gives. After 5 years at WN I would have more PTO than I would at AA after 30 and be earning around $20 k more. My 401K contribution would be double what AA would be giving and I would probably get Health benefits. I could earn nearly ten months of retiree medical coverage for every year working there, I would be able to retire with full retiree medical at 60 years of age and just 8 years with the company, at AA I would need to work till I'm 67 to get retiree medical from the government and put in 42 years with the company. My starting pay at WN would be more than my topped out pay at AA.

 

[bigjets]

I'm sure if the TWU is not voted out, we at AA will get a great contract 6-10 years from now. That is to say if the other unions and Delta management give their mechs a raise.

But back on the subject, it's kind of foolish to condemn Southwest for their maint, without knowing what actually knowing what caused the ACCIDENT, but on top of that it's hypocritical to condemn the outsourcing when the TWU was the union on property, when a whole bunch of outsourcing is happening at AA. Not a well thought out letter.

 

[1airborne]

All I know is this, after years matching the 401K program and profit sharing bonus that southwest gives I will have about 1 million in my 401K account according to my broker. Just about all the guys I know that have been there for 30 years have at least a million in there's. Between SS and my 401K I should make around 65-70 thousand a year in retirement.

I just talked to a couple of new hires that came from AA 1 had 24 years with AA. He is still young enough to do the same as I did with a little luck.

So come on over and put in your applications were not done hiring yet, but getting close.

1airborne

 

[Bob Owens]

All I know is this, after years matching the 401K program and profit sharing bonus that southwest gives I will have about 1 million in my 401K account according to my broker. Just about all the guys I know that have been there for 30 years have at least a million in there's. Between SS and my 401K I should make around 65-70 thousand a year in retirement.

I just talked to a couple of new hires that came from AA 1 had 24 years with AA. He is still young enough to do the same as I did with a little luck.

So come on over and put in your applications were not done hiring yet, but getting close.

1airborne

In 2003 we were told we had to give stuff away that even carriers in BK were not asking for, we were told we had to make this extraordinary sacrifice in order to save jobs, our pension and retiree medical, when AMFA filed for an election shortly afterwards with 9000 cards AA and the TWU claimed that we had 21000 in the title group, the NMB knocked it down to around 18000, just enough to reject a vote by less than 100 cards, by 2012 we were down to 11500, a loss of 6500 jobs,last year we were told that not only would we not be getting anything back but we had to give up the pension and retiree medical and still not get our OT rules, our week of vacation, our sick time, our IOD time and Holidays back, now by far we are the worst off mechanics in the industry, worse off than non-union Jet Blue, Delta and fed Ex in every metric, wages, health benefits, even work rules foreign outsourcing sick time, vacation, holidays, shift premiums, you name it, dead last, even behind non union, when you factor in the $600 in dues we pay for the privilege of being dead last that puts us even further behind. Now we are sitting at around 9500 and Title II is headed towards another reduction reduction. So we gave away pretty much everything, pay more for our medical than any other airline worker, had our pensions frozen and lost retiree medical and still saw a 50% reduction in headcount with all those concessions, meanwhile SWA is hiring and hasn't seen any reduction in headcount over the same period of time. Yep, Little, Gless and Videtich are doing great things with our careers!

 

[bigjets]

Here is something else, kind of fits in for the LOWS of the TWU, the FA's and their "association" are getting a 1,5% raise, FA's over 50 are getting a 9.9% 401k match and other contractual expenses, along with a $40k buyout for a max of 1500 FA's on exit of bankruptcy. In addition their hours revert back to their last contract meaning, they don't have to fly a minimum amount of hours to be employed, to get sick time, health ins., and vacation they only have to fly 35 hours a month.

The TWU gets a 4.3% raise...........
and we LOSE our Me Too clause.

can we join their union?

 

[bigjets]

That is some top notch union representation, from the APFA. I bet they pay less in union dues too, and have less members.

18 month's of school minimum to get an A&P license, thousands of dollars for tools, and school loans, for a mech. Not sure what the cost is to make a phone call for the initial phone interview for a FA.

I made a bad career decision. Should have been a FA, then maybe I could get on a plane and non-rev some place.

 

[Bob Owens]

The TWU gets a 4.3% raise...........
and we LOSE our Me Too clause.

And Profit Sharing. So for a one time 4.3% increase that we would get anyway with the mid term wage adjustment a year or so later we lose 6 years of profit sharing. Theses will likely be the most profitable years EVER. I saw where UAL posted over $400 million and AA even posted $200 million for the last quarter in bankruptcy. During the bankruptcy hearings the company's lawyers let it out that they expect to be pulling down over $3 billion a year in profits. Little screwed us again.

 

[Overspeed]

Here is something else, kind of fits in for the LOWS of the TWU, the FA's and their "association" are getting a 1,5% raise, FA's over 50 are getting a 9.9% 401k match and other contractual expenses, along with a $40k buyout for a max of 1500 FA's on exit of bankruptcy. In addition their hours revert back to their last contract meaning, they don't have to fly a minimum amount of hours to be employed, to get sick time, health ins., and vacation they only have to fly 35 hours a month.

The TWU gets a 4.3% raise...........
and we LOSE our Me Too clause.

can we join their union?

Memo to Gless from Donnelly about the 4.3%

http://www.twubkfacts.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=v-6xKBDK1kk%3D&tabid=1494

 

[Anomaly]

Anomaly states he is no trying to defend Jim Little. What do you call it then. AA is shipping its 777 work over seas our 757 work is going out of house. Southwest is hiring mechanics and not just fill the bare minumum in cities that nobody wanted in the AFW RIF. They are in the process of bringing back one of their C check lines now that they are getting more people. Jim Little was doing the typical TWU misdirection waving his right hand while picking your pocket with his left. The FA's at Southwest did not support his statement nor did any other group at Southwest. Maintenance had nothing to do with what happened, A 737 is not meant to landed NOSE FIRST!!!!! Anomaly put the Kool-Aid down and step away from the punch bowl.

Sure guy. I will put down the kool aide. I will suggest you are right, and I am wrong. That James Little and the union he represents has well overstepped his boundaries and that SWA Board of directors and their leadership team is right in all their decisions including outsourcing. Just in the name of keeping you amfa boys in line with management, I will suggest I could possibly be incorrect.

.....But I doubt it.There has to be something wrong when the members choose to defend the company over their union. Perhaps WN mechanics could do better without amfa? Perhaps all of us could do without the association confusing the important issues?