New Pilot contract

[oldiebutgoody]

Thank you LOR for some civil discourse. Your reserve system actually sounds like it is workable. Does the west reserve guarantee go up if the linholders are "flexed" to more hours? I'd like to see something like that, since when they flex linehoilders time there is usually a lot less left for the reserves. I'd also like to see some kind of protected time off, like the PT currently used for dmoestic trips, applied to international trips, as well.

I live in base, and I woudn't mind bidding reserve if they weren't treated like "whipping boys", like others have said.

 

[AWA320]

I also got Dec 24, and 25 off, all weekends in Dec. off, and New Years Day off.
Lord of Reserve

We will just see about that young man

AWA320

 

[Lord of Reserve]

"We will just see about that young man"

Golden days, baby!!!

About the pay with flexing thing, I'm not sure what you mean. We get 77 hours, guaranteed, and if you fly more, you get whatever you credit. You can also aggressive reserve trips up to 66 hours. What some guys will do, is get all the time they can in the first three weeks to get close to guarantee, then call in sick for the last week of the month. You then get the 5:15/day over guarantee. I've seen reserves block 50-55 hours, but get paid 90+ with this trick.

I use other tricks to minimize my monthly block, so I never get close to 77 hours, but that's what I get paid.


BTW for NYC bus driver. I was one of the old ALPA guys.
I'm afraid that since the current NC has no input from the West, they are going to give up A LOT of very nice things in the West contract. Not out of spite, but out of ignorance. Very unfortunate. There were many improvements in the new contract which would have made life better for everyone


Lord of Reserve

 

[BoeingBoy]

About the pay with flexing thing, I'm not sure what you mean.

Although the lines are nominally built to 85 hours, the company can "flex" or up that to 90 or 95 hours but reserve guarantee doesn't increase.

Jim

 

[autofixer]

"We will just see about that young man"

Golden days, baby!!!

About the pay with flexing thing, I'm not sure what you mean. We get 77 hours, guaranteed, and if you fly more, you get whatever you credit. You can also aggressive reserve trips up to 66 hours. What some guys will do, is get all the time they can in the first three weeks to get close to guarantee, then call in sick for the last week of the month. You then get the 5:15/day over guarantee. I've seen reserves block 50-55 hours, but get paid 90+ with this trick.

I use other tricks to minimize my monthly block, so I never get close to 77 hours, but that's what I get paid.


BTW for NYC bus driver. I was one of the old ALPA guys.
I'm afraid that since the current NC has no input from the West, they are going to give up A LOT of very nice things in the West contract. Not out of spite, but out of ignorance. Very unfortunate. There were many improvements in the new contract which would have made life better for everyone


Lord of Reserve

It sounds like, as a minimum, a starting point, we need the West reserve system.

 

[prechilill]

What about trip rigs for he 330 flying? I see 24+ hour layovers, what rigs are in the works for that (right now you have zero, none, zilch). Also, what if the inbound trip cancels at your outstation, do you have to stick around Europe another day? If so how does the company compensate you for this?

 

[Freighterguynow]

I'm afraid that since the current NC has no input from the West, they are going to give up A LOT of very nice things in the West contract. Not out of spite, but out of ignorance. Very unfortunate. There were many improvements in the new contract which would have made life better for everyone


Lord of Reserve

I think you are right so the West quitting the NC and the PHX Reps advocate boycotting any future participation really isn't helpful.

 

[Lord of Reserve]

"I think you are right so the West quitting the NC and the PHX Reps advocate boycotting any future participation really isn't helpful."


Well, I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on that topic...

Either way, the USAPA NC has Never reached out to the West Negotiating committee for anything. I know, I was the Vice Chairman for the West, and a member of the JNC.
The unfortunate (and incorrect) assumption on the part of many East pilots that I have come in contact with is that the East contract is superior to the West contract in every way. If fact, with ALPA, we were using the West contract as the template for the new joint contract, because with a few exceptions, the West contract is far superior to what's left of the East contract after LOA 93.
It was more expeditious to use the West contract, and try to cherry pick the good stuff from the East contract in order to get a quality short term contract quickly. That way, we could realize significant improvements immediately, and have another shot within a few years. If we hadn't been sidetracked with this senority nonsense, we probably could have had a contract in '07, and would be getting ready for another right now. We have now missed two cycles. Bummer.

Lord of Reserve

 

[crazystnic]

I think you are right so the West quitting the NC and the PHX Reps advocate boycotting any future participation really isn't helpful.

Having just talked to a NC member, I can state that they are well aware of the whole situation.. Very knowledgable...

Bottom Line, it's a matter of endurance....

those who can hold out the longest get the best contract.

 

[Metroyet]

Bottom Line, it's a matter of endurance....

those who can hold out the longest get the best contract.

This is a flatly absurd sentiment. Got news for you. Whatever this next contract contains, if it ever shows up that is, will NEVER make up for what you all decided to throw away 3 years ago. Retro pay is a fantasy.

 

[nycbusdriver]

What about trip rigs for he 330 flying? I see 24+ hour layovers, what rigs are in the works for that (right now you have zero, none, zilch). Also, what if the inbound trip cancels at your outstation, do you have to stick around Europe another day? If so how does the company compensate you for this?

Trip rig still applies. But time away from base is not enough for it to come into play since transatlantic has so much block time. If you get stuck out an extra day, then the trip rig comes into play and, if you get back only 24 hours late, the extra pay is about 4 hours plus/minus depending on the city pair.

 

[Lord of Reserve]

"Bottom Line, it's a matter of endurance....

those who can hold out the longest get the best contract."


Interesting statement. I disagree.

The Kirby proposal contained about $122 mil/year of improvements. Let's say for arguements sake, that we would have been able to pump that up to $160 mil/year.
Three years later, we have realized exactly zero in improvements. Let's say, for example that USAPA negotiates a five year contract with those same $160 mil/ year in improvements. We are $480/mil in the hole. In order ro recoupe that loss (forget about time value of money for a moment) you would have to add an additional $96 mil/year (for each of five years) on top of the $160 mil/year in improvements. That number is now $250 mil/year in improvements to make up for what we have lost in the last three years.
In another year, that number is $288 mil/yr.
A year after that it is $320 mil/yr.
A year after that, it is $352 mil/yr.

Unless Doug Parker starts breeding golden geese, this is not going to happen. Every day that we have separate contracts is $500,000 per day out of USAirways Pilots' pockets which is never coming back.

A joint contract was achievable in mid 2007. We would be opening section six on the NEXT contract by now.
We will never recoupe this money.


Lord of Reserve

 

[nycbusdriver]

We will never recoupe this money.


Lord of Reserve

So what?

Some things are worth the fight, money be damned.

 

[Lord of Reserve]

"So what?

Some things are worth the fight, money be damned."





Well, I guess that's an interesting way of putting it.
I'm just a simple negotiator and Union supporter who believes that a Union exists to increase the benefits and wealth that it's members enjoy in the aggregate. It's not just money... it's wealth, quality of life, standard of living, time with family, and professional respect. If it is worth it to you to sacrifice that for not just yourself, but for 6,000 other people, over what in the end (let's face it) is not much more that a breach of contract, than go for it.

I'm just not sure that when you run the numbers your position makes much sense.

Lord of Reserve

 

[AWA320]

So what?

Some things are worth the fight, money be damned.

Spoken like a true idiot!! Stop begging for parity and wasting money on usless losing snpback arbitrations then and just live out your career at industry worst loa 93...

AWA320