New Pilot contract

[Ames]

He had me lost too there oldie. When he retires everyone below him on the list moves up one number. That was pretty easy to figure out. But then again, for some seniority isn't when you are hired...........

No. He specificallly asked how much movement it would create. Big difference if NYC retires from left seat 330 or right seat 319.

 

[No Land Green]

No. He specificallly asked how much movement it would create. Big difference if NYC retires from left seat 330 or right seat 319.

Yeah, I should have figured it was a question that involved rebidding the entire list because one pilot retires off the 330, retrain the entire airline.......amazing.....

 

[767jetz]

Since your contract probably works the same way, maybe you should educate YOURSELF. He is NOT on LTD, since he said he was on FULL pay. That means he is STILL on the bid. Get it? Everyone on the East would move up one number, except the top 200 or so, Get it yet?

Wow! For someone who thinks he is such an expert, you really are clueless.

If If he is not flying, but holds a 330 captain bid, as far as manpower planning is concerned he does not affect staffing. So when he leaves (or a block of lets say 10 pilots in a 6 month period in the same situation leaves) it changes nothing. No one moves up because it doesn't create a vacancy. Which illustrates why the east claim of the "attrition train" is more like a taxi leaving you at the curb.

Get it?

 

[No Land Green]

Wow! For someone who thinks he is such an expert, you really are clueless.

Which illustrates why the east claim of the "attrition train" is more like a taxi leaving you at the curb.

Get it?

Yeah, your right again Jetz. Let's see, in 2007 moved up 385 numbers. Yeah I moved up in base and on equipment too. Moved up 12 positions in base on the March 2011 bid. It's only going to continue. Since you profess to know so much, how is the move up going for your West Buddies?...........No"taxi leaving" ME "at the curb" LMAO!!!!!!

Yeah, we on the East do "Get it"........

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Wow! For someone who thinks he is such an expert, you really are clueless.

If If he is not flying, but holds a 330 captain bid, as far as manpower planning is concerned he does not affect staffing. So when he leaves (or a block of lets say 10 pilots in a 6 month period in the same situation leaves) it changes nothing. No one moves up because it doesn't create a vacancy. Which illustrates why the east claim of the "attrition train" is more like a taxi leaving you at the curb.

Get it?

You just proved again exactly how little you know. What a clown.

By the way, ALPA still SUX!

 

[cactusboy53]

AWA Contract Gem # 593:

FO Smith has a three day trip with a check airman that is worth 15:45. The nice people at training scheduling call a couple of days prior to the trip and inform FO Smith that his trip is required for training, and they would like to pay protect him for that trip. FO Smith says "Sure, you bet.".

FO Smith knows another FO that is wanting to trade out of another three day trip that crosses over two of the three days of the previously mentioned trip (not picked up in company open time). Here's the tally:

Day One: 5:15 Day Guarantee (stay at home, play with the kids & dog, kiss the wife....)
Day Two: 5:15 Day Guarantee + 2:18 Fly (7:33 total)
Day Three: 5:15 Day Guarantee + 5:48 Fly (11:03 total)
Day Four: 7:20 Fly

Technically for 2:18 of Day Two and 5:15 of Day Three that FO was getting double wage @ $177.80 per hour!!!! This also a by-product of PBS BIDDING (desire to fly with Captain XXXXX.....1000 points).

The AWA contract (essentially) with the wages that were a part of sworn testimony during the Addington DFR Lawsuit would have garnered that FO an hourly wage just north of $98 (ten years of service). Let's not forget that we get 100% Mechanical & Deadhead as well (when they apply to a trip). Can you just imagine.....that was only our second ALPA contract, and that in a post-9/11 economy??

Note: The names have been changed to protect those weaseling the juice.

 

[AWA320]

You just proved again exactly how little you know. What a clown.

By the way, ALPA still SUX!

What are you whining about today butterball? Everyone knows you're clueless as a stick of butter now!

AWA320

 

[nycbusdriver]

Since your contract probably works the same way, maybe you should educate YOURSELF. He is NOT on LTD, since he said he was on FULL pay. That means he is STILL on the bid. Get it? Everyone on the East would move up one number, except the top 200 or so, Get it yet?

NO, it's always better to try to stir the pot, even when YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT.

What a GOOF.

Cue up the Clown Music!

Exactly.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm not a pilot, don't even play one on TV. I once posed this question in the regular pilots' thread; it got lost in the noise.

I can see how seniority is big thing for pilots. Not only does it determine routes and bids, it determines pay, since pay is based on a/c type. Rampers, gate agents, or f/as get the same pay regardless of a/c type worked. How about pilots at US be paid by seniority, regardless of a/c type? Several European carriers do this. Some years ago, I chatted with a grey haired SK captain. Tired of crossing 12 time zones in one day and being away for days at a time, he had switched from the 767 to the MD-80. No more CPH-BKK-SIN runs for him, a double turn on the CPH-ARN shuttle and back to his own backyard and bed every night. This also enables less senior flight crew to fly the bigs birds earlier than otherwise.

Just asking. Flame away.

Flame away???

No. Your idea (which has been kicking around for years now without getting any traction) is about the only thing that might save this airline from permanent fracture within the pilot group.

But it is a hard sell for a few reasons.

First, it's a huge break from the way things have always been done.

john john is right when he says:

I believe HP pilots make one rate of pay regardless of equipment

But there is not one pay rate regardless of seat based purely on length of service (LOS).

Second, if pay was based purely on LOS, it would likely run up the labor costs and the company would balk. Also, there would be a huge training cost as senior pilots bailed out of the transoceanic flying (for the very reasons you mentioned.) The number 2 pilot here would be flying an A320 out of DCA if he had his druthers and his pay was based on pure LOS. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, like him in that respect...including me.

Third, if the union came up with a plan to make LOS pay rates cost neutral to the company, then a lot of pilots might have to take a pay cut, which is another hard sell.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No. He specificallly asked how much movement it would create. Big difference if NYC retires from left seat 330 or right seat 319.

Given that my retirement would affect all but about 200 pilots, one who is even mildly knowledgeable would assume the likelihood that I am not an A319 co-pilot.

Wow! For someone who thinks he is such an expert, you really are clueless.

If If he is not flying, but holds a 330 captain bid, as far as manpower planning is concerned he does not affect staffing. So when he leaves (or a block of lets say 10 pilots in a 6 month period in the same situation leaves) it changes nothing. No one moves up because it doesn't create a vacancy. Which illustrates why the east claim of the "attrition train" is more like a taxi leaving you at the curb.

Get it?

You obviously DON'T get it. As often happens in your case.

Right now, I am on the bid and awarded a line every month. On medical leave, that means someone junior to me is flying my trips and the time trickles down to reserves. There has been no staffing change due to my medical leave.

If I do actually retire on medical (Long Term Disability...LTD), then the staffing will change to fill my position and everyone on the east except about 200 pilots senior to me will move up one number, and there will be a new A330 captain trained to take my spot. And a new B767 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new A320 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new B737 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new A330 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new B767 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new A320 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new B737 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new E190 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new (returned from furlough) E190 f/o trained to take his/her spot.

Get in now?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What are you whining about today butterball? Everyone knows you're clueless as a stick of butter now!

AWA320

Butterball? Stick of butter? What? You can't do better than that?

I would think that someone that proclaims themself to be an expert on the aviation industry could think of something.

Except that YOU have proven yourself inept, incompetent and certainly suffering from delusions of grandeur. You, sir, are a LOSER!

You really should be a lawyer, as you THINK you have the aptitude. Another incompetent lawyer. Then, you could represent the AOL bunch. They'll hire anybody.

 

[767jetz]

Given that my retirement would affect all but about 200 pilots, one who is even mildly knowledgeable would assume the likelihood that I am not an A319 co-pilot.

You are full of yourself and completely wrong. Unless your company does it different than any other airline in history. I was on medical leave for 8 months. Guess what. Since the company had no idea when I'd return, after one month they re-staffed and as a result line values went up for line holders to take up the slack and not over burden the reserves staff to avoid being short on reserves for unknown flying throughout the month. After 2 months they re-evaluated staffing and based on my leave and another they increases the reserves by 2, bringing the manpower model back to normal.

You are the ones who are clueless if you think they are "holding" your flying for when you might (or might not) return. Yes, your flying trickles down to reserves. If you have been on leave for more than 2 months then this flying which you bid and then gets removed, has already been baked into their line holder and reserve coverage model. So when/if you leave from medical it has zero effect on manpower. If they don't do this, then they would be indefinitely short on reserve coverage for the undetermined duration of your medical leave. One day of irregular ops due to weather and the entire system would melt down due to a lack of reserves.

Get a clue. You'd think after so many supposed years in this industry you guys would understand the details of how things work. It's actually comically sad that you think the company stands around hoping month to month that you will return so they can get their staffing model back to normal, and won't adjust anything until you retire. Typical narcissistic behavior to think the world stops and waits with baited breath for your return.

Just because you bid a line and get paid for it, doesn't mean your absence hasn't already been accounted for.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You are full of yourself and completely wrong. Unless your company does it different than any other airline in history. I was on medical leave for 8 months. Guess what. Since the company had no idea when I'd return, after one month they re-staffed and as a result line values went up for line holders to take up the slack and not over burden the reserves staff to avoid being short on reserves for unknown flying throughout the month. After 2 months they re-evaluated staffing and based on my leave and another they increases the reserves by 2, bringing the manpower model back to normal.

You are the ones who are clueless if you think they are "holding" your flying for when you might (or might not) return. Yes, your flying trickles down to reserves. If you have been on leave for more than 2 months then this flying which you bid and then gets removed, has already been baked into their line holder and reserve coverage model. So when/if you leave from medical it has zero effect on manpower. If they don't do this, then they would be indefinitely short on reserve coverage for the undetermined duration of your medical leave. One day of irregular ops due to weather and the entire system would melt down due to a lack of reserves.

Get a clue. You'd think after so many supposed years in this industry you guys would understand the details of how things work. It's actually comically sad that you think the company stands around hoping month to month that you will return so they can get their staffing model back to normal, and won't adjust anything until you retire. Typical narcissistic behavior to think the world stops and waits with baited breath for your return.

Just because you bid a line and get paid for it, doesn't mean your absence hasn't already been accounted for.

I guess our airline does it differently. I suppose that means you are NOT the expert on LCC that you proclaim to be.

 

[AWA320]

Butterball? Stick of butter? What? You can't do better than that?

I would think that someone that proclaims themself to be an expert on the aviation industry could think of something.

Except that YOU have proven yourself inept, incompetent and certainly suffering from delusions of grandeur. You, sir, are a LOSER!

You really should be a lawyer, as you THINK you have the aptitude. Another incompetent lawyer. Then, you could represent the AOL bunch. They'll hire anybody.

Getting under your skin huh butterball? Yeah we can all see your anger and frustration as you wear it like 3 strips on your sleeve!! I never ever proclaimed to be an expert in aviation that's you buttercup. I did however proclaim to know more about the law than most of you PLUS I look at this in a non emotional and rational way, something you are not capable of doing or you refuse to because you dont want to know the answer.

When you say "incompetent" do you mean like Seham?? You may want to do some research into Dr Jacobs and I call him that not only because he holds a Juris doctorate but he is also an MD!!! which means he is far more educated than seham who went to some low class school in argentina.

I know it hurts, you have been lied too by management and the people you elected as ALPA reps (rc4) and now being lied to by usapa. Its gonna be ok butterball trust me. 😛h34r:


AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Given that my retirement would affect all but about 200 pilots, one who is even mildly knowledgeable would assume the likelihood that I am not an A319 co-pilot.



You obviously DON'T get it. As often happens in your case.

Right now, I am on the bid and awarded a line every month. On medical leave, that means someone junior to me is flying my trips and the time trickles down to reserves. There has been no staffing change due to my medical leave.

If I do actually retire on medical (Long Term Disability...LTD), then the staffing will change to fill my position and everyone on the east except about 200 pilots senior to me will move up one number, and there will be a new A330 captain trained to take my spot. And a new B767 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new A320 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new B737 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new A330 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new B767 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new A320 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new B737 F/O trained to take his/her spot. And a new E190 captain trained to take his/her spot. And a new (returned from furlough) E190 f/o trained to take his/her spot.

Get in now?

Thats only partly true. One pilot does not create staffing needs HOWEVER when multiple people are on medical leave it does create a staffing need.

Could you please retire soon? You are taking up space that one of my west brothers or sisters could fill, they are going to fill it anyway but this would just make it that much faster.

AWA320