New Proposal is out for TWU

With interim wage cuts that do NOT come close to AA's request for concessions has led to positive cash flow at UAL...

Given this data, are you YES voters still inclined to give up 6 years of 25% pay and benefits?

My point is, there should be NO HURRY to rush in with 6 years of massive concessions. Many factors can change drastically in just months.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030312/airlines_united_4.html

Reuters
UAL on Track to Beat Initial Targets-CFO
Wednesday March 12, 4:26 pm ET
By Kathy Fieweger


CHICAGO (Reuters) - UAL Corp. (NYSE:UAL - News) Chief Financial Officer Jake Brace said on Wednesday that wage concessions from labor unions helped bankrupt United Airlines turn to a positive cash flow for the month of January, beating the company's own forecast.

United's January cash flow was a positive $1 million per day compared with its expectations of a negative cash burn rate of $10 million to $15 million per day, Brace said at a meeting of creditors in Chicago.

Brace also said UAL expected to exceed its first target for EBITDAR, or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization and rent. The target was set up by the lenders of its debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing package.

He attributed the performance in part to interim wage reductions from labor groups that the company secured earlier than expected. Most of UAL's labor unions agreed to temporary pay cuts while they work out long-term deals, and a judge imposed the wage cuts on the holdout machinists union.

UAL, the No. 2 U.S. airline, filed the largest bankruptcy in aviation history on Dec. 9. The airline also said on Wednesday it had a higher cash balance after its bankruptcy filing than it expected, in part due to fewer passengers booking on other airlines than originally forecast.

Brace also outlined some details of the airline's contingency plan in the event of a war with Iraq.

He said the Elk Grove Village, Illinois-based carrier would cut back its flight schedule by 10 percent if an Iraq war occurs. United would also seek additional financial assistance from the federal government in addition to covenant relief from its DIP lenders in the event of war, he said.

Brace said a war likely would force the airline to furlough more workers and possibly cut workers' wages again.

LABOR TALKS CONTINUE

United's labor groups have less than a week to finalize permanent deals with the airline before a March 17 deadline when the company has said it will take the next step in bankruptcy court to cancel its union contracts.

UAL attorney James Sprayregen said on Wednesday that negotiations with unions would continue even if the airline files the motion to void labor agreements next week.

A spokesman for the International Association of Machinists would not characterize the progress of labor talks other than to say both districts of the IAM were meeting with the company on Wednesday.

"We've told our members that Monday's not the end (of the process)," IAM spokesman Joe Tiberi said of the impending deadline.

Tiberi also would not discuss what constituted the most important issues in the negotiations, although he did say that the company's proposed low-cost carrier was figuring predominantly in the discussions.

Sprayregen declined to comment on whether United was engaged in any discussions with private equity firm Texas Pacific Group (News - Websites). The president of the machinists union told Reuters last week that the IAM was discussing possible financial participation from a number of third parties, including TPG.

"We're not going to get into those issues at this type of meeting," Sprayregen said, adding that the company was exploring all options.
 
What we are really doing is posturing for Bankruptcy Court!


From USA TODAY:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/20...-american_x.htm

"A quick bankruptcy filing, union sources and industry consultants say, could give AMR an advantage over its rivals in the event that most or even all airlines are forced by the deteriorating market conditions to file bankruptcy petitions.

One former industry executive with bankruptcy experience says it's important for still-solvent airlines to recognize that it could be dangerous to be the last competitor into bankruptcy court. There's a limited amount of financing available to help airlines operate in Chapter 11, and the last airline that files might find nothing left.
 
Don't worry they're not done with them yet at UAL. In fact they're filing Mon to abrogate their contract!
I think its time for us all to wake up and stop dreaming. There's NOTHING around the corner thats going to make things better around here. There's one direction we're headed and thats DOWN! Hoping that a UA collapse is going to save us is as logical as Hitler thinking the war was going to end when he heard Roosvelt died. As much as it SUCKS and as painful as its going to be, we're much better off trying to work something out now.
 
[blockquote]
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On 3/12/2003 5:32:54 PM AAmech wrote:

Don't worry they're not done with them yet at UAL. In fact they're filing Mon to abrogate their contract!
I think its time for us all to wake up and stop dreaming. There's NOTHING around the corner thats going to make things better around here. There's one direction we're headed and thats DOWN! Hoping that a UA collapse is going to save us is as logical as Hitler thinking the war was going to end when he heard Roosvelt died. As much as it SUCKS and as painful as its going to be, we're much better off trying to work something out now.
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And your solution? What, vote YES and hide under the bed for 6 long years? Who are you a TWU Official?
 
This is a part of the situation for you guys as I see it.
United claims to have made 1 million a day in the slow traffic month of January, (Projected to 365 million profit this year)
under horrible traffic conditions, paying full price for fuel- due to minimal or non existent fuel hedging -
and a concession package for their AMTs that is approximately 1/2 the size of the AMR proposal.
While it is true that United is enjoying additional benefits from deferred/lower payments to creditors
and suppliers, this should make you think.
 
I'm thinking!

When a company really wants and needs to make a profit they will succeed.

When a company wants to take advantage of a situtation they will fail.
 
bagsmasher,

Go ahead and vote no. Your 11 years senority, or has it now been 12, will not amount to much when AA files the big B. Better start looking at that business you wanted to start. Oh, by the way, you will have to do it without the $12,500 hand out from AA. That will be long gone. I have never understood AA agreeing to such a thing in a contract anyway.
 
Twaokc,Hey guy! We've been here before! You know as well as I what the company would love to see all of us panic into signing anything they might throw at us! Just look at the gloom and doom campain they've been dishing out lately! Are we in trouble? Yes, but to the extent they would like us to beleive? Probely not! Here's where the rubber meet's the road! Their going to take us for all we've got before this is all over! That's if we panic and let them! Do they need concessions? Probably do! But what are they welling to do for us in return? How much should we give? For how long? All questions that should be looked at carefully! Please people! Don't rush into anything! And don't give away the candy store, just because Carty has a sweet tooth!
 
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On 3/12/2003 2:21:58 PM bagsmasher wrote:

rampguy,

I am voting "NO" no matter what. You know why. And I know why you are voting "YES". You are former TWA, and even after the concessions, you will still be getting a raise from your former TWA wages.

This $1.8 billion in concessions is Carty's way of making his employees pay for his HUGE mistake of buying TWA.
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Vote no then. Being former TWA doesn't factor into it. I am through arguing with you when you resort to irrational thought. BTW, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know that your statement of a raise is in error. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead and vote no while living in your fantasy world.
 
[blockquote]
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On 3/12/2003 6:12:43 PM RV4 wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/12/2003 5:32:54 PM AAmech wrote:

Don't worry they're not done with them yet at UAL. In fact they're filing Mon to abrogate their contract!
I think its time for us all to wake up and stop dreaming. There's NOTHING around the corner thats going to make things better around here. There's one direction we're headed and thats DOWN! Hoping that a UA collapse is going to save us is as logical as Hitler thinking the war was going to end when he heard Roosvelt died. As much as it SUCKS and as painful as its going to be, we're much better off trying to work something out now.
----------------
[/blockquote]

And your solution? What, vote YES and hide under the bed for 6 long years? Who are you a TWU Official?
----------------
[/blockquote]

What's this? Disagree with you and that makes someone a (gasp) TWU official? Maybe worse, MANAGEMENT?
Hide under a bed? Maybe we should all just check in with you each day to find out how we should conduct ourselves. Disagree if you want Dave but why resort to this?
 
[blockquote]
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On 3/13/2003 3:03:39 AM rampguy wrote:


What's this? Disagree with you and that makes someone a (gasp) TWU official? Maybe worse, MANAGEMENT?
Hide under a bed? Maybe we should all just check in with you each day to find out how we should conduct ourselves. Disagree if you want Dave but why resort to this?
----------------
[/blockquote]

Simple:

You use an alias so you could be anybody and still didn't answer that question.

You don't agree with my opinion and that's fine. I asked for your solution and get nothing.
 
rampguy wrote:
Vote no then. Being former TWA doesn't factor into it. I am through arguing with you when you resort to irrational thought. BTW, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know that your statement of a raise is in error. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead and vote no while living in your fantasy world.


rampguy,
I do know what I'm talking about. I have a copy of both the IAM contract book, and the TWU contract book at work. For example: a topped out AA mechanic with both licenses makes real close to $37.00 per hour right now. Give him a 16% pay cut, and he is making about $31.00 per hour. So you are telling me TWA paid them better than $31.00 per hour before AA bought them? I don't have the book in front of me, but they will still come out with at least a $6-$7 per hour raise after the concessions. Deny it all you want, but facts are facts.
 
[blockquote]
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On 3/13/2003 10:15:24 AM bagsmasher wrote:

rampguy wrote:
Vote no then. Being former TWA doesn't factor into it. I am through arguing with you when you resort to irrational thought. BTW, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know that your statement of a raise is in error. But if it makes you feel better then go ahead and vote no while living in your fantasy world.


rampguy,
I do know what I'm talking about. I have a copy of both the IAM contract book, and the TWU contract book at work. For example: a topped out AA mechanic with both licenses makes real close to $37.00 per hour right now. Give him a 16% pay cut, and he is making about $31.00 per hour. So you are telling me TWA paid them better than $31.00 per hour before AA bought them? I don't have the book in front of me, but they will still come out with at least a $6-$7 per hour raise after the concessions. Deny it all you want, but facts are facts.
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[/blockquote]

You are still wrong. You don't figure in payments we make that we didn't make at TWA. I'm not complaining but just clarifying. I don't know about a mechanic but I do know my situation. Now, lets move on
 
[blockquote]
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On 3/12/2003 4:11:21 PM RV4 wrote:

With interim wage cuts that do NOT come close to AA's request for concessions has led to positive cash flow at UAL...

Given this data, are you YES voters still inclined to give up 6 years of 25% pay and benefits?

My point is, there should be NO HURRY to rush in with 6 years of massive concessions. Many factors can change drastically in just months.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030312/airlines_united_4.html


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[/blockquote]

RV4:

Positive Cash flow does not mean you are making a profit. Follow the link:

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030304/airlines_united_8.html

Let's get our concessions settled before the company has to go to a judge and abrogate contracts like they are going to do at UAL starting Monday, and at USAir April 1. Let's get the Section 1113 letters (for the fat lot of good they will do), and see if both management and the union together can't get the airline into a position where the mess can be fixed.

TANSTAAFL
 
Bagsmasher, What does it matter what an ex-TWA Amt used to make? Your still playing that "them against me" game! Is it going to change anything? I've got a few friends here that say they are going to carve the letters "TWA" on your tomestone! And if they're not arround, their sons will! "Just a joke bags!" But we all had better get back to the real world and not worry about what "used to be"! We've got enough to worry about right now!