NMB Speaks: We Have an Election! ALPA/USAPA Topic for 2/19-26

[AAA73Pilot]

Question...

If someone decides not to vote, is that a vote for ALPA. Or do they just count the people who voted?
I've seen some elections in the past that still count the people who choose not to vote.

wopr21

To answer your question. As long as 50%+1 votes, i.e. 5284/2=2642+1=2643 total votes it will be a valid election. Then a simple majority is declared the winner.

If you have less than 2643 total votes there will be no union representation.

This figure is based on the company supplied eligibility list. But it is still dynamic and could change. Even up to the cutoff date of Apr. 17.

 

[prechilill]

If this is what unions are about, folks basically losing 17+ years seniority in a merger of this size, then you can keep 'em.

Find me a person who lost 17 years of seniority. All I see on the East list are guys that actually improved their relative seniority because of the Nicolau award. You see my friend, this seniority issue has been debated endlessly around here becasue there is the US East definition of seniority and then there is the rest of the world's definition of seniority.

 

[zflygrl]

OK....I have gone to the site and I have read everything.....page to page and letter to letter. Here are a few questions for the USAPA top guys...so please don't answer if you are not one of them.

1) After and if all goes well. Will there be an equal number of West and East....pilots on your board at your new international office?

2) What are your finances like? I mean you just can't start something like this and have less then $250,000 in the bank.

3) What type of legal representation do you have? Because when things like this happen there are always....lawsuits.

4) Is USAPA going to work hard to get the West Pilots some sort of a retirement or even work hard to get them anything?

This is my fear that this is just going to be another form of ALPA......ALL for them (EAST) and nothing for the West. Because believe me if that is how it turns out to be.
I will find some way to SUE USAPA into the ground. This is no threat just fact.....I truely hope, if USAPA gets in, that USAPA works for both the West and East pilots.
But time will tell....so for now I am just sitting back and watching and waiting. 😛h34r:

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Sue all you want. The only way you'd prevail is if what someone is doing is illegal. Plus, you won't have ALPA's assets to help if ALPA is gone from the property.
The last time I looked, USAPA is for ALL US Airways pilots, East AND WEST.

How could anyone consider ALPA well funded, when a large portion of the finances goes to pay HUGE salaries and gets upchannelled to the AFL-CIO? I'll bet that if ALPA isn't voted out there will be ANOTHER assessment to pay for this campaign of half-truths they're participating in right now. Go ahead, ask your reps whether they'll do that or not. And please, get a committment in writing.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

OK....I have gone to the site and I have read everything.....page to page and letter to letter. Here are a few questions for the USAPA top guys...so please don't answer if you are not one of them.

1) After and if all goes well. Will there be an equal number of West and East....pilots on your board at your new international office?

2) What are your finances like? I mean you just can't start something like this and have less then $250,000 in the bank.

3) What type of legal representation do you have? Because when things like this happen there are always....lawsuits.

4) Is USAPA going to work hard to get the West Pilots some sort of a retirement or even work hard to get them anything?

This is my fear that this is just going to be another form of ALPA......ALL for them (EAST) and nothing for the West. Because believe me if that is how it turns out to be.
I will find some way to SUE USAPA into the ground. This is no threat just fact.....I truely hope, if USAPA gets in, that USAPA works for both the West and East pilots.
But time will tell....so for now I am just sitting back and watching and waiting. 😛h34r:

First off, there are no top guys who post here. On occasion they have posted on the MEC east forum. If you want answers from the top, I would suggest you send your questions to Info@USairlinePilots.org for a definitive answer to your questions. However, I would suggest you keep your threats to your self.

I can answer some of your questions.
1.No. It is based on the number of pilots in each base. CLT, PHL, PHX would have 3 reps on the board of representatives. BOS, DCA, LAS, LGA would each have 2 reps. There would be a total of 17 reps.
2. The actual number is above 250G.
3. Right now Lee Sehams' firm is representing us for the election. And beyond. I understand interviews have/are taking place for contingencies his firm does not handle.
4. What do you mean by retirement? We both have DC plans and 401K's.

I would suggest you talk to your husband and ask him how he plans to participate.

 

[BoeingBoy]

only that there is such a flawed merger policy that a travesty like the Nic award could be the result.

Yet that "flawed" merger policy is what US pilots have voted over and over to accept.....the last time in 97-98 when the full contract was last voted on. Strange that the exact same policy wasn't so "flawed" when the Shuttle pilots didn't get DOH from the same arbitrator....

Jim

 

[Leonidas]

Why don't you look at section 22 of the East contract and see how seniority is established and find the reference to Nicalou. You will find it is established by DOH, and Nicalou doesn't exist and those would be the terms in force until it is ammended. Be careful what you wish for because you would get DOH and none of the fences and conditions that will come with a USAPA joint contract.

You are denser than I thought, let me ask you a question, as a west pilot, what is my doh at usair?

 

[767jetz]

If this is what unions are about, folks basically losing 17+ years seniority in a merger of this size, then you can keep 'em.

WTF,O?!!

No one loses 17+ years. What did a 17 year pilot at USAirways have the day before the merger? He didn't even have a reserve position flying right seat in a 737. He had a recall number at an airline in it's second bankruptcy with no exit plan. A promise for a job at a dead company is not exactly a golden nugget to barter with. You talk about DOH with fences. Well that 17year pilot should then be fenced into the couch in his living room, because that's what 17 years at USAirways bought him. You can't blame the West or Nicolau for that.

To say a 17 year pilot loses his seniority because of Nicolau is pure arrogance. As BoeingBoy pointed out, there was no "outrage" at Nicolau when the Shuttle pilots did not get DOH. Interesting how your collective sense of justice on the East seems to vary in direct proportion to whether or not you get your way. :down:

 

[EastUS]

Yet that "flawed" merger policy is what US pilots have voted over and over to accept....

Seriously: WTF are you babbling about now? As for your placing cute quotes around "flawed"...how about instead attemptiing some hopelessly laughable explanation as to the true perfection of the "policy" that's produced such fine harmony hereabouts, and enhanced the work conditions and benefits of all concerned? All naturally know that Alpo's "policies" and "processes" are perfection itself....so; why don't they actually function? I'll just take a wild guess = this mess., or any other's never been Alpo's fault at any level.

 

[EastUS]

To say a 17 year pilot loses his seniority because of Nicolau is pure arrogance.

It's actually more a case of awareness...I'll leave the "arrogance" to individuals like yourself with far fewer years than 17...or likely even less than half of that.

 

[nostradamus]

After six plus months of USAPA organizing efforts, the America West pilot group was finally informed recently, by their alpa leaders, that the threat is real.

Click here for recent America West ALPA pilot newsletter.

 

[EastUS]

After six plus months of USAPA organizing efforts, the America West pilot group was finally informed recently, by their alpa leaders, that the threat is real.

Click here for recent America West ALPA pilot newsletter.

"We will literally need EVERY America West pilot
to vote for ALPA in the upcoming representation
election, or we could very well end up with
USAPA—an organization formed to impose a
date-of-hire integration on all US Airways
pilots—as our bargaining agent.

So if you think that the USAPA threat is not real,
think again. It cannot be stressed enough that
your careers hang in the balance and that each
and every one of you MUST vote for ALPA."

Lawdy, Lawdy!...Say it ain't so!!. Golly..and yet some of the most recent westie-Alpoid spin's been that Nic would come into play immediately after USAPA's voted in. I'm SO confused now...but: I MUST...."each and every one" of me...."MUST vote for ALPA". After all..the Alpoids are saying that..and they always "know best" 😉 There will be an ample tonnage of Alpoid manure to shovel outta' the barn after this is over....

I wonder what ever happened to the "Righteous Position" and "You won't even get 200 cards!"???? :blink: Gosh!..Could it even be possible that the west Alpoids are as utterly clueless as their east counterparts? 😉

PS: For the benefit of those not long immersed in alpa: This sort of "Vote your FEARS!" approach to providing "information" has long been an established alpa methodology...and look where it's ever gotten anyone.....

 

[hp_fa]

Sue all you want. The only way you'd prevail is if what someone is doing is illegal.

People don't need to do something "illegal" to be sued and held responsible. Braking contracts is not illegal. However, it could lead to an action for breach of contract or specific performance. Don't confuse criminal law and civil law.

 

[EastUS]

People don't need to do something "illegal" to be sued and held responsible.

That's certainly true. Morons can spill coffee on themselves and sometimes collect "damages" for their stupidity. I've no confusion as per civil or criminal law. Civil law can hold that Ojay's responsible for the murders that criminal law says he didn't commit What an utterly splendid system huh?

 

[end_of_alpa]

People don't need to do something "illegal" to be sued and held responsible. Braking contracts is not illegal. However, it could lead to an action for breach of contract or specific performance. Don't confuse criminal law and civil law.

You are correct. However, I would phrase it "Don't confuse criminal law and civil law with Labor Law."