NMB Speaks: We Have an Election! ALPA/USAPA Topic for 2/19-26

[exB717Flyer]

How did you do that with the twice goofed up W-2?

My W2 was fine.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I am a west guy who is considering voting for USAPA.

I read of your doubts. Perhaps instead of just thinking about yourself you might also think about your AWA brethren. Also here's a major consideration: lawsuits take years no matter how egregious the complaint. USAPA can get away with DFR-ing us for a long, long, time before they have any worries. We will suffer greatly from their lack of ethics and integrity. When the choice is bad or worse, choose bad, which in this case is ALPA.

 

[cynic]

We will suffer greatly from their lack of ethics and integrity. When the choice is bad or worse, choose bad, which in this case is ALPA.

Reminds me of a quote from South Park "Every election is between a giant douche and a turd sandwich."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche_and_Turd

 

[oldiebutgoody]

USAPA can't buy that level of representation and support, at any price.

It comes from the blood, sweat and tears of individuals like JC and countless others that answered that call over the history of ALPA. It's a level of expertise and funding that simply cannot appear magically under the auspices of USAPA.

USAPA supporters say that ALPA has failed its members on all counts. I don't think ALPA has ever failed its members in the area of Air Safety. I think JC makes some valid points in his letter. Definitely something to weigh before casting your vote for a new CBA that offers nothing but change as it's mantra.

Just another guy that suckled at the ALPA teat for many years. Any good aviation lawyer would be able to provide the representation that ALPA does. I know that there are MANY talented pilots at LCC that can do the work of ALPA WITHOUT the huge overhead. I wonder how much Flight Pay Loss the membership is paying for these clowns to send all the mail and email I'm being bombarded with? Even if you totally disregard the merger issues and Nic award, I think getting rid of the 800 pound gorilla that calls itself ALPA is a great idea!

 

[nostradamus]

I wonder how much Flight Pay Loss the membership is paying for these clowns to send all the mail and email I'm being bombarded with? Even if you totally disregard the merger issues and Nic award, I think getting rid of the 800 pound gorilla that calls itself ALPA is a great idea!

I love the flight pay loss they have for dropping trips over holidays.

I agree with your statement about merger issues and Nic award, there are no guarantees for the outcome. Getting rid of ALPA would help the younger generation of pilots.

 

[N924PS]

Just another guy that suckled at the ALPA teat for many years. Any good aviation lawyer would be able to provide the representation that ALPA does. I know that there are MANY talented pilots at LCC that can do the work of ALPA WITHOUT the huge overhead. I wonder how much Flight Pay Loss the membership is paying for these clowns to send all the mail and email I'm being bombarded with? Even if you totally disregard the merger issues and Nic award, I think getting rid of the 800 pound gorilla that calls itself ALPA is a great idea!

It's not just the individuals, it's the organization in this case.

When US427 spun in at Aliquippa in 1994, the pilots were blamed by Boeing.

JC and ALPA and diligent IAM representatives figured out it was the Parker Hannifin rudder actuator that caused the crash. Do you think USAPA has the resources to accomplish that kind of work? I don't.

Bottom line is there are a lot of things wrong with ALPA. Bringing USAPA on board is not going to be the end-all, saving grace that many of you believe.

If all you USAPA supporters would have put as much energy fixing the existing union from within prior to the Nic Award perhaps these pilot groups wouldn't be in this predicament. All of the individual council reps that are maligned here were nominated and elected by their constituents. Many have been elected time and time again. Where was your activism when it could have made a difference from within?

You seem obsessed with this teat analogy. Were you not breast fed as an infant and now are paying the price?

 

[Bear96]

I know that there are MANY talented pilots at LCC that can do the work of ALPA WITHOUT the huge overhead.

So where have they been hiding all of these years?

 

[nostradamus]

It's not just the individuals, it's the organization in this case.

Bottom line is there are a lot of things wrong with ALPA. Bringing USAPA on board is not going to be the end-all, saving grace that many of you believe.

If all you USAPA supporters would have put as much energy fixing the existing union from within prior to the Nic Award perhaps these pilot groups wouldn't be in this predicament. All of the individual council reps that are maligned here were nominated and elected by their constituents. Many have been elected time and time again. Where was your activism when it could have made a difference from within?

You seem obsessed with this teat analogy. Were you not breast fed as an infant and now are paying the price?

924ps

You are a US Airways pilot. You are a former PSA pilot that was given his date of hire. Please explain what you did with your energy prior to the nic award. Please explain what you did to avoid having the same reps nominated time and time again. Please explain your activism when it could have made a difference.

You did nothing because you had yours. I have a new term for pilots like you, you sir are a nicoprite.

 

[nostradamus]

924ps (nicoprite)

While you are at it tell the story about one of your psa pilots that became the Usair alpa mec chairman right after psa was aquired. He promptly pushed for parity pension benifits for the psa pilots. He used up his sick time grabbed his lump sum retirement benifits then retired.

 

[N924PS]

924ps

You are a US Airways pilot. You are a former PSA pilot that was given his date of hire. Please explain what you did with your energy prior to the nic award. Please explain what you did to avoid having the same reps nominated time and time again. Please explain your activism when it could have made a difference.

You did nothing because you had yours. I have a new term for pilots like you, you sir are a nicoprite.

I have served on ALPA commitees over the years and supported the PHL-PIT-CLT reps (pre-Lance).

My reps represented the will of it's constituency to the Merger Committee. A negotiated settlement did not happen so they agreed to binding arbitration. The result was the Nicolau Award.

I wasn't "given" my date of hire. It was result of then ALPA merger policy, circa 1987.

 

[Phoenix]

.... but the inability of the pilot groups to work out [seniority] differences prevented that......

ALPA has a "merger policy" but the pilots are at fault for not working out their differences? The ALPO recycle!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

When you guys jump on 924PS it always comes around to date of hire and how he got his. That tells me two things, first that despite your protestations otherwise, this is 99% driven by the nic award rather than what is wrong with alpa. Secondly, it tells me you are fixated on that and thinking with your little head without regard to the multitude of ramifications. For example the resources and expertise of ALPA and men like JC for 5050 and the Pennsylvania tragedy.

I personally think that when AWA came along a good share of AAA pilots that hadn't "gotten theirs" saw 130 or so airframes with a pilot group virtually all entirely behind the 89 furloughees by date of hire and length of service. I think alot of you thought that was your chance to finally "get yours." Only problem was......well we all know the story from there on out, no sense in rehashing.

Taking out all emotion, and looking at pure hard facts, as 924PS has despite not thinking the nic was fair(as I remember anyway), usapa really doesn't have a whole lot to stand on. You may very well pull of the election, but the results you are expecting most likely won't be anything like what you are thinking. I don't believe any of us would be the better for it.

I know that what I just wrote isn't entirely true by any stretch and there are various shades of gray, and even that some of you are entirely true to your word about this not being nic driven. But I believe usapa is a temorary feel good measure and little else. If usapa prevails I think we will all be sorry. Well every one but the lawyers in their new Porshces.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It's not just the individuals, it's the organization in this case.

When US427 spun in at Aliquippa in 1994, the pilots were blamed by Boeing.

JC and ALPA and diligent IAM representatives figured out it was the Parker Hannifin rudder actuator that caused the crash. Do you think USAPA has the resources to accomplish that kind of work? I don't.

Bottom line is there are a lot of things wrong with ALPA. Bringing USAPA on board is not going to be the end-all, saving grace that many of you believe.

If all you USAPA supporters would have put as much energy fixing the existing union from within prior to the Nic Award perhaps these pilot groups wouldn't be in this predicament. All of the individual council reps that are maligned here were nominated and elected by their constituents. Many have been elected time and time again. Where was your activism when it could have made a difference from within?

You seem obsessed with this teat analogy. Were you not breast fed as an infant and now are paying the price?

I used it because it fits. If I were really interested in attaching myself to a nipple I'd get more involved in ALPA. How long have you been flying? Sounds like a long time if you came from PSA. Pretty silly that you don't know that PILOTS ARE ALWAYS BLAMED until the true cause of an accident is found. It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist from ALPA to determine that the pilots weren't to blame. I'm a trained accident investigator myself, and could even offer those services to USAPA, even though it's been a while since I've used that skill set. All it takes is an honest, open approach to safety, and ALPA DOES NOT have a monopoly on that. APA SWAPA and others ALL have their own safety and legal departments, very effective ones, I might add.

 

[sharktooth]

JC and ALPA and diligent IAM representatives figured out it was the Parker Hannifin rudder actuator that caused the crash. Do you think USAPA has the resources to accomplish that kind of work? I don't.

Okay, where do you think ALPA got those resources, just from pilot dues?

Boeing and USAir paid for quite a bit of the testing. JC was the person who decided what the problem "was". NASA provided quite a bit of resources as well as Continental (they had at least one incident) and, as P-H realized they might be involved, they kicked in resources to unsuccessfully head things off at the pass.

Pulease. ALPA could barely serve as a clearinghouse of information and without the firm assertions by USAir pilots, USAir would have taken almost full blame.

The solution was to assess blame in a manner that could be tolerated by all as efforts to assess what actually happened became so muddled as to defy any clarification. If you are proud of that then Bush probably has a job for you.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

When US427 spun in at Aliquippa in 1994, the pilots were blamed by Boeing.
JC and ALPA and diligent IAM representatives figured out it was the Parker Hannifin rudder actuator that caused the crash. Do you think USAPA has the resources to accomplish that kind of work? I don't.

Your facts are a little off. Capt. Jim G. (ret.) from the TRAINING DEPT. spearheaded the investigation and discovered the real reasons. Not ALPA safety since Jim was not on the ALPA safety committee. He also discovered the compartmentalized nature of Boeing that allowed this to happen. I.e. the smoking gun if you will. So yes I believe the same people of pilots helping pilots will continue.

Bottom line is there are a lot of things wrong with ALPA. Bringing USAPA on board is not going to be the end-all, saving grace that many of you believe.

If all you USAPA supporters would have put as much energy fixing the existing union from within prior to the Nic Award perhaps these pilot groups wouldn't be in this predicament. All of the individual council reps that are maligned here were nominated and elected by their constituents. Many have been elected time and time again. Where was your activism when it could have made a difference from within?

The activism you are so amazed at, is people like me who witnessed ALPA's modus operandi. Discredit the messenger. A lot of very capable people said enough was enough and stepped back. Now these people are stepping forward in hopes of making a real change.