phasersonstun2
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Don't be surprised at a carved up Delta going in three or four different places.
NW,UAL,LCC don't need 100% of Delta
- Thread starter phasersonstun2
- Start date
NYCDelta
Senior
Really??? I missed that-where did you read/hear that?
luv2fly
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He is apparently subscribing to the Ralph Cramden theory of airline economics, which to date has proven to be as reliable as a on time departure out of PHL. Suprisingly, Ralphy sightings been sparse lately.
dariencc
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So far, it seems like you and your delta cohorts have been wrong every step of the way, not Ralph Cramden. You and the rest predicted the creditors would stick with Delta, the Delta employees would stop the deal, the government would stop the deal, the Atlanta business community would stop the deal, Boeing would stop the deal, and on and on and on. Now you and yours are desperately saying that NW will stop the deal.
A few weeks ago Cramden said due diligence was coming, which you scoffed at. Anyone want to take that bet.......didn't think so.
Not you or anyone else knows what will happen. Go take your kids to the playground and quit commenting on this crap. And by :down: the way, you know nothing about Delta, so just shut up..
D
delta777
Guest
Brilliant observation dariencc, unless you have some inside info, the "deal" is far from done so how could you say who has or hasn't been proven wrong? 🙁
As for your statement about Cramden and due diligence, he said due diligence had ALREADY BEGUN, and it favored LCC. Don't be so dense when you try to twist the facts to your liking. :blink:
luv2fly
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No sir. Your buddy Ralph claimed that a rift had developed in DL's BOD and that due diligence had already been agreed to.
Selective memory problems again dariencc or just more wishful thinking? Let me refresh your short term memory.
Your buddy Ralph got it wrong when he asserted that NW and US were going to fragment DL as it has now been revealed that NW and DL are in merger talks.
Since you like to dream up scenarios, contemplate this one.
DL/NW merge. CO/UA merge. AA goes it alone since they have no need to merge. Who does this leave out in the cold? Hmmmmm. Once again. Thank you for the inspiration of my signature.
dariencc
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what are we in 1st grade? waa,waa,waa . don't talk about my delta ok "shut up". pathetic. some people are getting a little worried that this thing might actually happen.
dariencc
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luv2fly
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Let me dumb this down for you again darien.
Can you read or do we need to simplify it even more for you Einstein?
If you are typical of US employees, we are doomed.
And rightly so. If this merge proceeds, DL employees aren't the only one hitting the unemployment lines.
Can you read or do we need to simplify it even more for you Einstein?
If you are typical of US employees, we are doomed.
And rightly so. If this merge proceeds, DL employees aren't the only one hitting the unemployment lines.
longing4piedmont
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Nope. He is a 320 pilot who is the Chatty Cathy of the airways. Soon to be a Barbie Jet driver.........
dariencc
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<<<Let me dumb this down for you again darien.
QUOTE
For now, and for undisclosed reasons, Mr. ralphcramden is limiting his disclosure to the following bold statement. “The due diligence issue is a done deal, and in LCC’s favor,â€
Can you read or do we need to simplify it even more for you Einstein?
If you are typical of US employees, we are doomed.>>>
You are obviously determined to keep your 100% inaccuracy record going, oh brilliant one. After sobering up tomorrow, come back and read the following quote from 777 relief officer that I was responding to:
"As for your statement about Cramden and due diligence, he said due diligence had ALREADY BEGUN, and it favored LCC. Don't be so dense when you try to twist the facts to your liking. "
777 was wrong, as usual, when he said Cramden stated due diligence has ALREADY BEGUN. I corrected his mistatement.
BTW, it looks like that due diligence announcement is on it's way.
I also corrected your bogus statement about the fragmentation talks. This one:
<<<Your buddy Ralph got it wrong when he asserted that NW and US were going to fragment DL...>>>
A little reading comprehension, and less alcohol, go a long way.
Things getting you down, luv2fly?
QUOTE
For now, and for undisclosed reasons, Mr. ralphcramden is limiting his disclosure to the following bold statement. “The due diligence issue is a done deal, and in LCC’s favor,â€
Can you read or do we need to simplify it even more for you Einstein?
If you are typical of US employees, we are doomed.>>>
You are obviously determined to keep your 100% inaccuracy record going, oh brilliant one. After sobering up tomorrow, come back and read the following quote from 777 relief officer that I was responding to:
"As for your statement about Cramden and due diligence, he said due diligence had ALREADY BEGUN, and it favored LCC. Don't be so dense when you try to twist the facts to your liking. "
777 was wrong, as usual, when he said Cramden stated due diligence has ALREADY BEGUN. I corrected his mistatement.
BTW, it looks like that due diligence announcement is on it's way.
I also corrected your bogus statement about the fragmentation talks. This one:
<<<Your buddy Ralph got it wrong when he asserted that NW and US were going to fragment DL...>>>
A little reading comprehension, and less alcohol, go a long way.
Things getting you down, luv2fly?
NYCDelta
Senior
You can talk about whatever you wish. Just don't come to the DL board, bash DL employees, and not expect a response. It's pure entertainment-that's all. Unless someone on here is a member of the official creditors' committee, the DOJ, or Mr. Bethune; then nobody knows what's going to happen.
Like I said earlier, nobody should worry until the papers are signed, all the approvals are given, and we see it in writing.
Many interesting points in this article:
Continental Ex-Chief Bethune
Could Play a Pivotal Role
In Fate of Delta -- and Industry
By MELANIE TROTTMAN
January 11, 2007; Page B1
Retired airline Chief Executive Gordon Bethune became an icon of the aviation industry when he turned around failing Continental Airlines Inc. in the 1990s. Now, he is emerging with a pivotal role in determining the fate of Delta Air Lines Inc. and whether a wave of airline mergers could be on the horizon.
The official committee of Delta Air Lines creditors who will decide whether Delta emerges from bankruptcy court protection as an independent company or as part of another airline recently hired Mr. Bethune to help them examine their options: Accept a hostile merger bid from US Airways Group Inc.? Support a plan by Delta's management to emerge from bankruptcy as a stand-alone carrier? Or, push for additional bidders and hold a de facto auction for the Atlanta airline?
In an interview, Mr. Bethune was adamant that he hasn't reached a conclusion and must still thoroughly assess the scenarios and answer creditors' questions before weighing in with a final opinion. Still, he made clear he believes consolidation is needed. "The industry is dysfunctional. There's really no reason to have 15 airlines. And there ought to be more stability for people like Boeing and Airbus. You've got lots of competition and do you really need that much?" Mr. Bethune said in the interview on Friday, following his appointment that became official late last week. "Everybody can write a plan. Can you really implement it successfully? That's what I'm being asked to answer."
[Gordon Bethune]
Known best for steering the dramatic turnaround of Continental Airlines in the 1990s after painful mergers, bankruptcy and union-management strife, the 65-year-old Mr. Bethune remains a respected and influential force. After six years with aircraft maker Boeing Co., where he served as a vice president and general manager of customer services and oversaw the manufacturing for the 737 and 757 airplanes, Mr. Bethune joined Continental as president and chief operating officer in early 1994. He retired from the Houston airline 10 years later as chairman and CEO, and has since been acting as an industry consultant while serving on several boards including Aloha Airlines of Hawaii, where he is chairman, and Prudential Financial Inc. and Honeywell International Corp.
His presence already is having an impact in the Delta matter. At a three-hour meeting with US Airways executives in New York Monday, the notoriously blunt consultant urged the airline to put forth its best offer for creditors to review, according to people who were in the meeting or briefed on it. Yesterday US Airways raised its bid to a total of $10.3 billion in stock and cash -- up from $8.6 billion based on yesterday's closing stock price, in a revised offer made early in the morning ahead of a regularly scheduled Delta creditors meeting.
Mr. Bethune also met with Delta executives late last week to review their stand-alone plan, and then with the Delta creditors committee at yesterday's meeting. People who have met with Mr. Bethune in recent days say he has indicated he thinks a Delta merger with US Airways makes sense and could win antitrust approval from U.S. regulators. Yesterday other people familiar with the situation said Delta and Northwest Airlines Corp. have had regular contact for months about a possible combination, though the discussions remain preliminary. The sweetened offer was well received by Delta creditors, said one person familiar with the creditors' reaction. "It's a significant increase in value that changes the dynamic," this person said. Creditors now plan to pressure Delta to consider opening its books to US Airways as well as other potential bidders, this person said.
Separately, an unofficial committee of Delta creditors representing about 19 banks and hedge funds is urging Delta to "immediately" allow US Airways access to Delta's books for review, according to a statement. The group is also urging Delta to be open to transactions with other airlines that may be superior to Delta's stand-alone plan. Both Northwest and Delta said yesterday that they don't comment on rumors and speculation. Northwest told its employees that while it remains focused on completing its reorganization and leaving bankruptcy-court protection in the second quarter, it "is monitoring developments in the airline industry and is committed to acting in the best interest of all of its constituents."
If Mr. Bethune recommends the merger with US Airways, and creditors take heed to pressure Delta's management into a deal, a domino effect of industry consolidation will likely follow and reshape the industry for consumers, airline employees and creditors in years to come. Already, the merger of US Airways and America West in late 2005 has put pressure on airlines to consider consolidation to remain competitive. That consideration has gained strength since US Airways made a public bid for Delta Nov. 15. Indeed, exploratory merger talks between the United Airlines unit of UAL Corp. and Continental Airlines gained more urgency once US Airways disclosed its bid.
If Mr. Bethune takes a different path and convinces creditors to vote for a Delta standalone plan, airlines are more likely to stay put, with the industry remaining as it is: oversupplied and fragmented, according to many industry officials, including Mr. Bethune himself.
Whatever happens, Mr. Bethune says big airlines should marry partners that add complementary routes in other parts of the world. "You don't put all your eggs in one basket," he said, adding that when Europe is doing poorly, Latin America may boom, and vice versa. "Airlines need to get some scale that allows them to become more stable and not live or die on the next snowstorm," he said.
He cautions that it is a big mistake to marry the wrong partner and gives US Airways' CEO Doug Parker credit for merging America West with US Airways to boost the two airlines' chances of survival. He says Delta has "come a long way" since it filed for bankruptcy-court protection in 2005 and is delivering on what it has said it would.
Some in the industry have suspected Mr. Bethune was hired as cover to justify a creditors' committee bias toward a Delta stand-alone plan. That belief is rooted in part in Mr. Bethune's history with Delta: He used to work for Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein at Western Airlines in the 1980s and considers Mr. Grinstein a "good friend" and "classy guy." "He still calls me OC for Oil Can and I call him Grindstone," said Mr. Bethune, who was vice president of maintenance at the time. Mr. Bethune dismisses the notion that his ties to Mr. Grinstein will influence his recommendation now, noting that the two had a run-in in the late 1990s when Mr. Bethune approached Mr. Grinstein about Continental merging with Delta and Mr. Grinstein said he would fight against that.
Mr. Bethune says his approach to reviewing Delta's current situation will be to assess the probability of success or lack thereof on various components of the competing plans, such as whether revenue and cost-savings projections can realistically be achieved, whether antitrust obstacles are realistic and whether plans for handling union integration are achievable. The committee then will have to decide whether or not to push Delta management into opening up the company's books for US Airways or any others to study. The committee doesn't have to follow Mr. Bethune's advice. He makes the point that the level of risk he might personally be willing to take may not be the same the creditors would take.
Financial advisers and lawyers for Delta's creditors' committee approached Mr. Bethune in recent weeks after the committee found a "pressing need" for an airline consultant with broad experience. His perspective "will be of critical importance in understanding the short- and long-term effects that any transaction proposal and/or plan of reorganization may have," the committee said in a document filed with the bankruptcy court. Mr. Bethune will receive $250,000 for the first 10 days of consulting work and $250,000 more for every 10 days of future service, up to $1 million, according to a court document. After that, the committee would need to seek further consent from debtors or a bankruptcy court order to exceed that amount.
Mr. Parker said Mr. Bethune's arrival in the process is like a breath of fresh air. "Frankly, it was refreshing to present [the merger plan] to someone who really understands how this works. We had a nice dialogue," he said of US Airways's Monday meeting with Mr. Bethune.
Mr. Bethune isn't shy about his pro-consolidation stance or the role he believes it should play in the industry's future. "I have been a proponent of stabilizing the industry by consolidating," he said. He partially blames airline executives for the industry's current problems. "The barrier to consolidation has been as much testosterone as it is the government," he said, referring to airline executives who can't decide which CEO and management teams will run a combined carrier. "Somebody's got to leave. That's always a big impediment to consolidation."
Consolidation done well enables airlines to achieve cost-savings and increased revenue by rationalizing their fleets and saving on overhead by getting rid of duplicate costs.
Mr. Bethune envisions an industry that has fewer carriers not only for profitability's sake but also to create a stable industry in which employees can work, pensions can be provided and creditors like Boeing and Pratt & Whitney can avoid getting less than full payment from airlines that file for bankruptcy-court protection. He thinks his vision is attainable if the government permits it. "Logic needs to prevail," he said.
-- Susan Carey and Corey Dade contributed to this article
Continental Ex-Chief Bethune
Could Play a Pivotal Role
In Fate of Delta -- and Industry
By MELANIE TROTTMAN
January 11, 2007; Page B1
Retired airline Chief Executive Gordon Bethune became an icon of the aviation industry when he turned around failing Continental Airlines Inc. in the 1990s. Now, he is emerging with a pivotal role in determining the fate of Delta Air Lines Inc. and whether a wave of airline mergers could be on the horizon.
The official committee of Delta Air Lines creditors who will decide whether Delta emerges from bankruptcy court protection as an independent company or as part of another airline recently hired Mr. Bethune to help them examine their options: Accept a hostile merger bid from US Airways Group Inc.? Support a plan by Delta's management to emerge from bankruptcy as a stand-alone carrier? Or, push for additional bidders and hold a de facto auction for the Atlanta airline?
In an interview, Mr. Bethune was adamant that he hasn't reached a conclusion and must still thoroughly assess the scenarios and answer creditors' questions before weighing in with a final opinion. Still, he made clear he believes consolidation is needed. "The industry is dysfunctional. There's really no reason to have 15 airlines. And there ought to be more stability for people like Boeing and Airbus. You've got lots of competition and do you really need that much?" Mr. Bethune said in the interview on Friday, following his appointment that became official late last week. "Everybody can write a plan. Can you really implement it successfully? That's what I'm being asked to answer."
[Gordon Bethune]
Known best for steering the dramatic turnaround of Continental Airlines in the 1990s after painful mergers, bankruptcy and union-management strife, the 65-year-old Mr. Bethune remains a respected and influential force. After six years with aircraft maker Boeing Co., where he served as a vice president and general manager of customer services and oversaw the manufacturing for the 737 and 757 airplanes, Mr. Bethune joined Continental as president and chief operating officer in early 1994. He retired from the Houston airline 10 years later as chairman and CEO, and has since been acting as an industry consultant while serving on several boards including Aloha Airlines of Hawaii, where he is chairman, and Prudential Financial Inc. and Honeywell International Corp.
His presence already is having an impact in the Delta matter. At a three-hour meeting with US Airways executives in New York Monday, the notoriously blunt consultant urged the airline to put forth its best offer for creditors to review, according to people who were in the meeting or briefed on it. Yesterday US Airways raised its bid to a total of $10.3 billion in stock and cash -- up from $8.6 billion based on yesterday's closing stock price, in a revised offer made early in the morning ahead of a regularly scheduled Delta creditors meeting.
Mr. Bethune also met with Delta executives late last week to review their stand-alone plan, and then with the Delta creditors committee at yesterday's meeting. People who have met with Mr. Bethune in recent days say he has indicated he thinks a Delta merger with US Airways makes sense and could win antitrust approval from U.S. regulators. Yesterday other people familiar with the situation said Delta and Northwest Airlines Corp. have had regular contact for months about a possible combination, though the discussions remain preliminary. The sweetened offer was well received by Delta creditors, said one person familiar with the creditors' reaction. "It's a significant increase in value that changes the dynamic," this person said. Creditors now plan to pressure Delta to consider opening its books to US Airways as well as other potential bidders, this person said.
Separately, an unofficial committee of Delta creditors representing about 19 banks and hedge funds is urging Delta to "immediately" allow US Airways access to Delta's books for review, according to a statement. The group is also urging Delta to be open to transactions with other airlines that may be superior to Delta's stand-alone plan. Both Northwest and Delta said yesterday that they don't comment on rumors and speculation. Northwest told its employees that while it remains focused on completing its reorganization and leaving bankruptcy-court protection in the second quarter, it "is monitoring developments in the airline industry and is committed to acting in the best interest of all of its constituents."
If Mr. Bethune recommends the merger with US Airways, and creditors take heed to pressure Delta's management into a deal, a domino effect of industry consolidation will likely follow and reshape the industry for consumers, airline employees and creditors in years to come. Already, the merger of US Airways and America West in late 2005 has put pressure on airlines to consider consolidation to remain competitive. That consideration has gained strength since US Airways made a public bid for Delta Nov. 15. Indeed, exploratory merger talks between the United Airlines unit of UAL Corp. and Continental Airlines gained more urgency once US Airways disclosed its bid.
If Mr. Bethune takes a different path and convinces creditors to vote for a Delta standalone plan, airlines are more likely to stay put, with the industry remaining as it is: oversupplied and fragmented, according to many industry officials, including Mr. Bethune himself.
Whatever happens, Mr. Bethune says big airlines should marry partners that add complementary routes in other parts of the world. "You don't put all your eggs in one basket," he said, adding that when Europe is doing poorly, Latin America may boom, and vice versa. "Airlines need to get some scale that allows them to become more stable and not live or die on the next snowstorm," he said.
He cautions that it is a big mistake to marry the wrong partner and gives US Airways' CEO Doug Parker credit for merging America West with US Airways to boost the two airlines' chances of survival. He says Delta has "come a long way" since it filed for bankruptcy-court protection in 2005 and is delivering on what it has said it would.
Some in the industry have suspected Mr. Bethune was hired as cover to justify a creditors' committee bias toward a Delta stand-alone plan. That belief is rooted in part in Mr. Bethune's history with Delta: He used to work for Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein at Western Airlines in the 1980s and considers Mr. Grinstein a "good friend" and "classy guy." "He still calls me OC for Oil Can and I call him Grindstone," said Mr. Bethune, who was vice president of maintenance at the time. Mr. Bethune dismisses the notion that his ties to Mr. Grinstein will influence his recommendation now, noting that the two had a run-in in the late 1990s when Mr. Bethune approached Mr. Grinstein about Continental merging with Delta and Mr. Grinstein said he would fight against that.
Mr. Bethune says his approach to reviewing Delta's current situation will be to assess the probability of success or lack thereof on various components of the competing plans, such as whether revenue and cost-savings projections can realistically be achieved, whether antitrust obstacles are realistic and whether plans for handling union integration are achievable. The committee then will have to decide whether or not to push Delta management into opening up the company's books for US Airways or any others to study. The committee doesn't have to follow Mr. Bethune's advice. He makes the point that the level of risk he might personally be willing to take may not be the same the creditors would take.
Financial advisers and lawyers for Delta's creditors' committee approached Mr. Bethune in recent weeks after the committee found a "pressing need" for an airline consultant with broad experience. His perspective "will be of critical importance in understanding the short- and long-term effects that any transaction proposal and/or plan of reorganization may have," the committee said in a document filed with the bankruptcy court. Mr. Bethune will receive $250,000 for the first 10 days of consulting work and $250,000 more for every 10 days of future service, up to $1 million, according to a court document. After that, the committee would need to seek further consent from debtors or a bankruptcy court order to exceed that amount.
Mr. Parker said Mr. Bethune's arrival in the process is like a breath of fresh air. "Frankly, it was refreshing to present [the merger plan] to someone who really understands how this works. We had a nice dialogue," he said of US Airways's Monday meeting with Mr. Bethune.
Mr. Bethune isn't shy about his pro-consolidation stance or the role he believes it should play in the industry's future. "I have been a proponent of stabilizing the industry by consolidating," he said. He partially blames airline executives for the industry's current problems. "The barrier to consolidation has been as much testosterone as it is the government," he said, referring to airline executives who can't decide which CEO and management teams will run a combined carrier. "Somebody's got to leave. That's always a big impediment to consolidation."
Consolidation done well enables airlines to achieve cost-savings and increased revenue by rationalizing their fleets and saving on overhead by getting rid of duplicate costs.
Mr. Bethune envisions an industry that has fewer carriers not only for profitability's sake but also to create a stable industry in which employees can work, pensions can be provided and creditors like Boeing and Pratt & Whitney can avoid getting less than full payment from airlines that file for bankruptcy-court protection. He thinks his vision is attainable if the government permits it. "Logic needs to prevail," he said.
-- Susan Carey and Corey Dade contributed to this article
