Oil

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Everyone can't afford insurance. Example:
And all the person has to do is hire the "dream team" ambulance chaser, and he's on easy street. The differance is that in the U.S. if a Dr. or hospital screws up your life, you have recourse, in The Great White Utopia (Canada), you have none. That's one of the ways to pay for socialized medicine. No big dollar lawsuits. So in Canada, the government can (and does) deny coverage, and youcan't even sue for damages. Good plan

[post="263578"][/post]​

Busdrvr,
Can you please back up your wild statements about the Great White North?
If not then a retraction would suffice.

 

[sastal]

As to the current U.S. deficit, consider what the deficits are in France Germany and Japan as a percent of GDP. then consider what it would be if they didn't depend on the U.S. military to defend them at every turn.

Defend them from what? Terrorist cells? You're right, the U.S. has everything to teach European countries about how to deal with groups like the Algerian guerillas, the Basque separatists, the IRA, and the Camorra. Are you for real?

 

[aafsc]

What about the fact that the hijackers trained for and received their FAA Airman's certificate in the U.S. over the course of a couple years?

[post="264257"][/post]​

Also, what about the fact that the U.S. was warned by Russia, Egypt, Israel, Germany, and England's MI-6 that something big was about to happen just before 9/11? These countries' intelligence agencies knew something was up, they just did not have any details. The U.S. administration was warned yet they did absolutley nothing. Add this to fact that the hijackers entered and exited the U.S. multiple times (which means going through customs and immigration multiple times.) And with all the paperwork required for an FAA Airmans Certificate, you would have thought they would have done a background check, especially since they were foreigners ( Arabs/Muslims). Makes you wonder, doesn't it? It is clear that the Europeans were "much more vigilant" than their American counterparts. So your statement that the Europeans are not doing their part on the "war on terror" is unfounded.

 

[North by Northwest]

How serious can "Homeland" (that nazi term crakes me up) Security be when you can't stop the invasion of 2-3 MILLION illegal alians a year, from coming across the boarder...AFTER 9/11!

 

[aafsc]

UK,
China oil consumption rose by about 25% last vs significantly smaller GDP growth. One of the oft cited reasons is that china moved to oil for some power production to alleviate some of it's pollution form previously depending on dirty coal. China is moving fast and furious toward Nuke power, so to some extent, the growth in oil usage may be temporary.

As to the current U.S. deficit, consider what the deficits are in France Germany and Japan as a percent of GDP. then consider what it would be if they didn't depend on the U.S. military to defend them at every turn. considering the roll of the "hamburg cell' in 911, I'm not thinkin the Euro's are pulling their weight in the GWOT.

[post="264249"][/post]​

Do you object to the U.S. "defending" France, Germany, and Japan? You should because YOU are subsidizing their "freedom" with YOUR tax dollars (military protection). The price for their "freedom" comes from "the fruits of YOUR labor". In effect they are "taking something from YOU." France, Germany and Japan are quite capable of defending themselves.
And the next time you are in your air force jet flying over Baghdad, look at the city below and smile because they too are "enjoying the fruits of YOUR labor" with Bush's blessing through American taxpayer financed reconstruction.
As for oil, we need a president with vision. Just like Kennedy set a deadline to go to the moon, we need a president that will set a deadline to get us off the foreign oil. A practicle plan needs to be devised and implemented to achieve this goal. It may be expensive in the short run but we will be better off in the long run when China, India, and everyone else demand more oil thus pushing prices even higher. But this president has shown NO leadership and seems more than willing to keep the lips of this country glued to the "foreign oil teet."

 

[Ukridge]

Clock pendulum to mainspring - clock pendulum to mainspring - unwind - relax - take a deep breath! I realize that my limited ability to put thoughts to paper (commonly known as the skill of writing) is often times poor at best. Many of my teachers rated my writings as much worse than poor. However, even with the handicap of Ukridge's foggy scriblings, I would trust that the gentle reader would realize that my remark about the account deficits were offered in a spirit of LEVITY! Novaqt had questioned the direction of the thread. I, noticing the large number of views and replies had made an attempt at the wry remark of thinking - what if I had brought up a subject not as mundane as petroleum, but rather as hotly contested as governmental spending? Just as any good musician can take a note and make a song, I still am at a loss as to how this was used as a springboard for the assetion that U.S. monetary support is the undergirding of our defence. As it is though, the Economist has over the last few months touched on the topic of deficit spending and has voiced repeated concern. How this has a bearing on anything else is a step I cannot follow. The Economist can speak for itself with these concerns but they were entirely unrealated to precieved assistance in defence.
France in particular would question how much the U.S. is spending t defend it. They have their own standing army, marine, and nuclear force and are the recepient of no significant monetary supplement. Also the question would be raised of 'defending Europe against what?' All discussions beyond the scope of the forum I am afraid.
Cheers

 

[aafsc]

Clock pendulum to mainspring - clock pendulum to mainspring - unwind - relax - take a deep breath! I realize that my limited ability to put thoughts to paper (commonly known as the skill of writing) is often times poor at best. Many of my teachers rated my writings as much worse than poor. However, even with the handicap of Ukridge's foggy scriblings, I would trust that the gentle reader would realize that my remark about the account deficits were offered in a spirit of LEVITY! Novaqt had questioned the direction of the thread. I, noticing the large number of views and replies had made an attempt at the wry remark of thinking - what if I had brought up a subject not as mundane as petroleum, but rather as hotly contested as governmental spending? Just as any good musician take take a note and make a song, I still am at a loss as to how this was used as a springboard for the U.S. monetary undergirding of our defence. As it is though, the Economist has over the last few months touched on the topic of deficit spending and has voiced repeated concern. How this has a bearing on anything else is a step I cannot follow. The Economist can speak for itself with these concerns but they were entirely unrealated to precieved assistance in defence.
France in particular would question how much the U.S. is spending t defend it. They have their own standing army, marine, and nuclear force and are the recepient of no significant monetary supplement. Also the question would be raised of 'defending Europe against what?' All discussions beyond the scope of the forum I am afraid.
Cheers

[post="264325"][/post]​

UK, Busdrvr says that we defend France, Germany, and Japan. Truthfully, I don't know how much or how little we spend doing this. I know we have defended them in the past but now they are quite capable of defending themselves. And from what is a good question. Since Busdrvr thinks we defend them, the point of my post was to see if he feels the same way about subsidizing the "security" of foreigners as he does with subsidizing the medical "security" of his fellow Americans. He says that socialized medicine would allow someone else to "enjoy the fruits of his labor." And I was just wondering if he feels just as passionate about some Frenchman, German, or Japanese "enjoying the fruits of his labor" by receiving American taxpayer money in the form of military protection. And if he feels the same way in regards to the American taxpayer supported Iraqi reconstruction efforts.

 

[Busdrvr]

UK, Busdrvr says that we defend France, Germany, and Japan. Truthfully, I don't know how much or how little we spend doing this. I know we have defended them in the past but now they are quite capable of defending themselves. And from what is a good question. Since Busdrvr thinks we defend them, the point of my post was to see if he feels the same way about subsidizing the "security" of foreigners as he does with subsidizing the medical "security" of his fellow Americans. He says that socialized medicine would allow someone else to "enjoy the fruits of his labor." And I was just wondering if he feels just as passionate about some Frenchman, German, or Japanese "enjoying the fruits of his labor" by receiving American taxpayer money in the form of military protection. And if he feels the same way in regards to the American taxpayer supported Iraqi reconstruction efforts.

[post="264329"][/post]​

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-03.html

In truth, there seems to be quite a bit you don't seem to have a clue about, yet you are not without an uninformed opinion.

The Euro's never spent their fair share of the cost of protecting EUROPE during the cold war, and now, The european memebrs of NATO spend less than half of the U.S. military buget on their defense. Yet the budget deficits are just as high as a percent of GDP.

Let me clarify a few points on healthcare.
1. Do you have a "right" to any level of healthcare?

NO.

I defy you to prove you do. That's the left though. An ascertion og a "right" would come form one of two places
God
The government.

God? Obviously not. If that were true, then the busybodies would be much morre concerned about medical care in Africa. After all, shouldn't the regions with the worst levels be fixed first? Shouldn't we all be brought up to the same level?

Government? That is article what of the constitution?

It's this sickening level of entitlement that is so offensive. Simply put, the left feels it's entitled to someones elses stuff. Wrong. Even more comical, the baffoons raise the entitlement flag only when it benefits THEM. They'll let a kid starve in Mexico, then have the gall to claim they have the right to their every medical care desire because they are a "human being thank you very much" Truely sickening.

Does Europe have lots of experience fighting "terrorism"? Absolutely. Yet it's still there. Yet there is still a "Hamburg Cell". Europe has vast experience FAILING to control terrorism, and that infectious disease spread across the Atlantic to us because they failed to do their part. We will kill it, they'll complain, and yet they'll benefit greatly, having done very little (save the U.K.) for the cause.


Equally comical is the ascertions now by a board wacked out leftist that we were warned by all those European intel agencies.
First, if they had such good intel, why didn't they go round up the offenders? Is it possible that we get hundereds of threats A DAY? The rub is figuring out which ones are credible.
Second, So now we are to believe everything these agencies say? OK then, you just made the case for war against Sadam. Many of these agencies told us he was trying to buy yellowcake (and not for his many reactors). Selective memory? Heck, some of these countries were even SELLING Sadam military hardware.

 

[North by Northwest]

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-03.html

In truth, there seems to be quite a bit you don't seem to have a clue about, yet you are not without an uninformed opinion.

The Euro's never spent their fair share of the cost of protecting EUROPE during the cold war, and now, The european memebrs of NATO spend less than half of the U.S. military buget on their defense. Yet the budget deficits are just as high as a percent of GDP.

Let me clarify a few points on healthcare.
1. Do you have a "right" to any level of healthcare?

NO.

I defy you to prove you do. That's the left though. An ascertion og a "right" would come form one of two places
God
The government.

God? Obviously not. If that were true, then the busybodies would be much morre concerned about medical care in Africa. After all, shouldn't the regions with the worst levels be fixed first? Shouldn't we all be brought up to the same level?

Government? That is article what of the constitution?

It's this sickening level of entitlement that is so offensive. Simply put, the left feels it's entitled to someones elses stuff. Wrong. Even more comical, the baffoons raise the entitlement flag only when it benefits THEM. They'll let a kid starve in Mexico, then have the gall to claim they have the right to their every medical care desire because they are a "human being thank you very much" Truely sickening.

Does Europe have lots of experience fighting "terrorism"? Absolutely. Yet it's still there. Yet there is still a "Hamburg Cell". Europe has vast experience FAILING to control terrorism, and that infectious disease spread across the Atlantic to us because they failed to do their part. We will kill it, they'll complain, and yet they'll benefit greatly, having done very little (save the U.K.) for the cause.
Equally comical is the ascertions now by a board wacked out leftist that we were warned by all those European intel agencies.
First, if they had such good intel, why didn't they go round up the offenders? Is it possible that we get hundereds of threats A DAY? The rub is figuring out which ones are credible.
Second, So now we are to believe everything these agencies say? OK then, you just made the case for war against Sadam. Many of these agencies told us he was trying to buy yellowcake (and not for his many reactors). Selective memory? Heck, some of these countries were even SELLING Sadam military hardware.

[post="264345"][/post]​

Regretfully, this is the gospel. :down:

 

[aafsc]

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-03.html

In truth, there seems to be quite a bit you don't seem to have a clue about, yet you are not without an uninformed opinion.

The Euro's never spent their fair share of the cost of protecting EUROPE during the cold war, and now, The european memebrs of NATO spend less than half of the U.S. military buget on their defense. Yet the budget deficits are just as high as a percent of GDP.

Let me clarify a few points on healthcare.
1. Do you have a "right" to any level of healthcare?

NO.

I defy you to prove you do. That's the left though. An ascertion og a "right" would come form one of two places
God
The government.

God? Obviously not. If that were true, then the busybodies would be much morre concerned about medical care in Africa. After all, shouldn't the regions with the worst levels be fixed first? Shouldn't we all be brought up to the same level?

Government? That is article what of the constitution?

It's this sickening level of entitlement that is so offensive. Simply put, the left feels it's entitled to someones elses stuff. Wrong. Even more comical, the baffoons raise the entitlement flag only when it benefits THEM. They'll let a kid starve in Mexico, then have the gall to claim they have the right to their every medical care desire because they are a "human being thank you very much" Truely sickening.

Does Europe have lots of experience fighting "terrorism"? Absolutely. Yet it's still there. Yet there is still a "Hamburg Cell". Europe has vast experience FAILING to control terrorism, and that infectious disease spread across the Atlantic to us because they failed to do their part. We will kill it, they'll complain, and yet they'll benefit greatly, having done very little (save the U.K.) for the cause.
Equally comical is the ascertions now by a board wacked out leftist that we were warned by all those European intel agencies.
First, if they had such good intel, why didn't they go round up the offenders? Is it possible that we get hundereds of threats A DAY? The rub is figuring out which ones are credible.
Second, So now we are to believe everything these agencies say? OK then, you just made the case for war against Sadam. Many of these agencies told us he was trying to buy yellowcake (and not for his many reactors). Selective memory? Heck, some of these countries were even SELLING Sadam military hardware.

[post="264345"][/post]​

First, you did not answer my question. Do you or did you support defending Europe during the cold war with YOUR tax money? And do you support protecting South Korea and Japan from North Korea at YOUR expense.After all, they felt/feel "ENTITLED" to freedom at YOUR expense. And do you support the reconstruction of Iraq at YOUR expense? Hey Bush seems to think they are ENTITLED to it. If you answer yes to any of these questions, then why do you feel these non U.S. citizens can benefit from our tax money while US citizens can't benefit from their own tax money in the form of socialized medicine? You have no problem pi$$ing away our money in foreign countries when it comes to military matters but have a big problem when it comes to programs at home. Just about all Americans pay taxes and we want something (other than the best military equipment money can buy) that benefits us and not the Haliburtons and military contractors of this country.
You talk about the kid in Mexico, as I stated in another post he is entitled to medical. But the problem in Mexico is all the wealth is in the hands of the few. The people in Mexico need to make changes in their country that will give them socialized medicine. What is truly sickening is your attitude. All the "left" feels is that everyone should get basic medical. If someone from the poor/working class needs his appendix removed and Bill gates needs his removed they will both get the same (only one way to remove an appendix). But if Bill Gates wants the "preisdential suite" for a recovery room while the person from the poor/working class has to recover in a room with 3 other people then so be it. I have no problem with that. As long as the "less wealthy" person gets the procedure he needs. It is like an airline ticket. The guy in first class
pays more and he gets a bigger seat, a better meal, and free booze. The guy in coach pays much less for the ticket and gets a smaller seat and a bag of peanuts. But they both get the basic service. And that is they both get to their destination safely.
Part of the reason Europe has had problems with terrorism is because it is within their own countries (The IRA in Northern Ireland and the Basques in Spain) Hard to control when they are your own people and live amongst you. Can you say Timothy McVeigh? If the US government is so great at fighting terrorism why could not they stop him and why could not they stop the 9/11 hijickers? After all they exited and reentered this country many times and got flight training over the course of two years. Also, there was an FBI agent in Arizona that reported he was suspicious about the 9/11 hijackers, yet his report was quashed. And yes, we were warned by foreign intelligence and this administration did nothing at all. The foreign intelligence agencies knew something was up, they just did not have enough information to provide details. The 9/11 hijackers trained right here in FLA (where Bush's brother is governor) right under our nose. You have a selelctive memory. Remember the handshake between Rumsfeld and Saddam? You are right about one thing, a lot of these countries, including the US, sold Saddam military hardware. But the US also trained and armed Bin-laden in the 1970s and when the Bushs go to Saudi Arabia they have stayed in a Bin-Laden house. The army and marines have taken many casulaties in Afghanistan fighting the very people the US/CIA financed and trained.
The link at the top of your post says it all; the CATO institute, a right wing republican think tank. You just regurgitate what they say. With you, whatever they say is gospel truth. They love your type. Just believe what they say and don't think for yourself. They hate people who think for themselves.

 

[North by Northwest]

" pi$$ing away our money in foreign countries when it comes to military matters but have a big problem when it comes to programs at home." This pretty much sums up the sad mentality of Republicanism...just as long as they get their grimy little paws in the kitty. :bleh:

 

[aafsc]

" pi$$ing away our money in foreign countries when it comes to military matters but have a big problem when it comes to programs at home." This pretty much sums up the sad mentality of Republicanism...just as long as they get their grimy little paws in the kitty. :bleh:

[post="264434"][/post]​

Well stated and I could not agree more.

 

[Busdrvr]

But the problem in Mexico is all the wealth is in the hands of the few. The people in Mexico need to make changes in their country that will give them socialized medicine. What is truly sickening is your attitude.

Do a little research, Mexico has MUCH stricter labor laws than the U.S. the problems are due to a corrupt LEFT WING government.

Do you or did you support defending Europe during the cold war with YOUR tax money? And do you support protecting South Korea and Japan from North Korea at YOUR expense.

I supported SOME military spending in Europe and Asia ONLY because it benefitted us. A soviet dominated Europe and Asia would have been a VERY bad thing. Now that the soviet threat is gone, we should be bringing as many of these troops home as possible. Maybe we agree on that point. Frankly I'm sick of us doing Europes Job (Bosnia). Heck, even much of the Middle easts issues should fall on the shoulders of Europe.

All the "left" feels is that everyone should get basic medical.

What medical care is currently being denied people? What do you consider "basic"? Anti-depressant medication? Viagra? Cholesterol medication? where is the line? How does cost figure in?

You have no problem pi$$ing away our money in foreign countries when it comes to military matters but have a big problem when it comes to programs at home. Just about all Americans pay taxes and we want something (other than the best military equipment money can buy) that benefits us and not the Haliburtons and military contractors of this country.

Even corrected for inflation, is there more domestic social spending in the U.S. now than during any other time in history? What are we missing (besides the government nationalizing the entire healthcare industry)?

Can you say Timothy McVeigh? If the US government is so great at fighting terrorism why could not they stop him and why could not they stop the 9/11 hijickers?

We executed the scumbag (where do you stand on his execution?)

Also, there was an FBI agent in Arizona that reported he was suspicious about the 9/11 hijackers, yet his report was quashed. And yes, we were warned by foreign intelligence and this administration did nothing at all. The foreign intelligence agencies knew something was up, they just did not have enough information to provide details.

Our intellegence agencies were gutted and were worthless. The first WTC attack was linked to Al Queda. we did nothing. They plotted to blow up U.S. 747's over the pacific, we did nothing. They bombed our embassies overseas, we did nothing. The bombed a U.S. Navy warship, we did nothing. Oh wait, we sent a few tomahawks and blew up a few abandoned junglegyms and an aspirin factory. That'll scare em.... Our intel agencies are gutted. Behind the efforts of Kerry and Torrecelli, we demanded an ethical CIA. It cost us BIG. Now we find out the mastermind of 911 is being "tortured" by some women rubbing naked boobs on him (torture me please....), and air America is all abuzz. Intel is an ugly business, and we have to ask ourselves the tough questions. Where is that line?

 

[aafsc]

But the problem in Mexico is all the wealth is in the hands of the few. The people in Mexico need to make changes in their country that will give them socialized medicine. What is truly sickening is your attitude.

Do a little research, Mexico has MUCH stricter labor laws than the U.S. the problems are due to a corrupt LEFT WING government.

Do you or did you support defending Europe during the cold war with YOUR tax money? And do you support protecting South Korea and Japan from North Korea at YOUR expense.

I supported SOME military spending in Europe and Asia ONLY because it benefitted us. A soviet dominated Europe and Asia would have been a VERY bad thing. Now that the soviet threat is gone, we should be bringing as many of these troops home as possible. Maybe we agree on that point. Frankly I'm sick of us doing Europes Job (Bosnia). Heck, even much of the Middle easts issues should fall on the shoulders of Europe.

All the "left" feels is that everyone should get basic medical.

What medical care is currently being denied people? What do you consider "basic"? Anti-depressant medication? Viagra? Cholesterol medication? where is the line? How does cost figure in?

You have no problem pi$$ing away our money in foreign countries when it comes to military matters but have a big problem when it comes to programs at home. Just about all Americans pay taxes and we want something (other than the best military equipment money can buy) that benefits us and not the Haliburtons and military contractors of this country.

Even corrected for inflation, is there more domestic social spending in the U.S. now than during any other time in history? What are we missing (besides the government nationalizing the entire healthcare industry)?

Can you say Timothy McVeigh? If the US government is so great at fighting terrorism why could not they stop him and why could not they stop the 9/11 hijickers?

We executed the scumbag (where do you stand on his execution?)

Also, there was an FBI agent in Arizona that reported he was suspicious about the 9/11 hijackers, yet his report was quashed. And yes, we were warned by foreign intelligence and this administration did nothing at all. The foreign intelligence agencies knew something was up, they just did not have enough information to provide details.

Our intellegence agencies were gutted and were worthless. The first WTC attack was linked to Al Queda. we did nothing. They plotted to blow up U.S. 747's over the pacific, we did nothing. They bombed our embassies overseas, we did nothing. The bombed a U.S. Navy warship, we did nothing. Oh wait, we sent a few tomahawks and blew up a few abandoned junglegyms and an aspirin factory. That'll scare em.... Our intel agencies are gutted. Behind the efforts of Kerry and Torrecelli, we demanded an ethical CIA. It cost us BIG. Now we find out the mastermind of 911 is being "tortured" by some women rubbing naked boobs on him (torture me please....), and air America is all abuzz. Intel is an ugly business, and we have to ask ourselves the tough questions. Where is that line?

[post="264481"][/post]​

1. Mexico? Higher Labor standards? Do you know what a" maquiladora" is? And if their standards are so high, then why do millions come here to work illegally?

2. What I consider "basic" is treatment to save lives, prevention of illnesses, and repairs to one's body when injured in an accident. Not cosmetic surgery like facelifts, liposuction etc. Viagra? No. If you are old, you have already had your fun. Therefore, you should pay for this yourself. As I said, only life threatening and injurious events. Cholestral lowering drugs, IN MY OPINION, no. Why, because I am living proof you can significantly lower your cholesteral through proper diet and exercize. Anti-depressant drugs, no. Why, because it does not deal with the physical body and in fact may harm it through chemical changes. This is something the drug companies push to sell to make money. I know someone who takes these and it appears to cause a MAJOR change in ones personality in addition to causing severe acne (hence chemical changes in the body). I am not a pill popper. I don't like them.

3. Bush and his republican government has denied federal funding for various domestic programs claiming they are too expensive. If I recall, some were in the $1 billion to $2 billion dollar range. I believe some of these initiatives involved education. He said we could not afford it and that we did not have the money. But low and behold with the Iraq war and reconstruction, he "magically" found $300- $500 billion for this. It's a miracle.

4. Reagarding McVeigh, that is a classic text book example of someone who deserves the death penalty. Guilt pretty much a certainty and the fact that he showed no remorse at all.

5. I agree that our intelligence has been downgraded. Unfortunately, that business (like war) is a very messy business and you have to "get down in the dirt". But does not the CIA do all of it's work outside the US? McVeigh was a U.S. citizen. Perhaps the FBI, a domestic agency, should have been more vigilant. Given the fact that the FBI agent in Arizona had suspicions about the 9/11 hijackers and reported them, his agency, along with the CIA should have acted because these foreign terrorists had now infiltrated the country. All they would have to have done is go to the flight schools and arrest them. And as for the 9/11 mastermind having a female rubbing her breasts on him, if I was him I would be greatful because it could be worse. He could have ended up being part of the "male a$$ pyramid."

 

[Busdrvr]

1. Mexico? Higher Labor standards? Do you know what a" maquiladora" is? And if their standards are so high, then why do millions come here to work illegally?

WELL aware, having taken "Mexican Trade" in a border town as part of an MBA. Like I said, do a little reserch on it (google it). It's surpring and eye opening. An example off the top of my head, if you give someone a christmas bonus this year, out of the goodness of your heart, you just commited to giving it EVERY year, and it should grow EVERY year.

Mexico is a MESS!!! Have you ever noticed the differant colored license tags? Do you know (at least in the past), that you could not buy a new, import car? A "new" suberban comes as a "kit" and is then assembled by the local dealer. A wise way to build a domestic car manufaturing segment. Ironically, the cars that were made there (VW's at the time) were for export only....