Good question.......perhaps someone with bigger connections in CCY then I have, can bend the right ears and do the right thing for a change.
Philly Bag problem
- Thread starter libertybell
- Start date
PITbull
Veteran
Get some of that "dead weight" in the VP department to handle the PHL bag problem. They need to go and OBSERVE the process so they can see for themselves and respond with a "plan".
Perhaps this is one of those times that the company/consumer affiars could be proactive and send out apology letters and vouchers BEFORE the customer contacts us with a complaint letter. Being proactive and admitting and apologizing for the problem to everyone, not only those that complain first, would go a long way in mending our customer relations.
Surprise! I disagree with you.
Blame and responsibility fall right on the PHL station managers. There is nothing a VP is going to do about a broken bag belt or sorting/delivering bags. They can put pressure on the PHL station to bring up their performance numbers, change policy relative to maintaining the system, offer letters of apology and perhaps vouchers via consumer affairs. Having a VP in a sea of bags would do nothing more then get in the way.
Blame and responsibility fall right on the PHL station managers. There is nothing a VP is going to do about a broken bag belt or sorting/delivering bags. They can put pressure on the PHL station to bring up their performance numbers, change policy relative to maintaining the system, offer letters of apology and perhaps vouchers via consumer affairs. Having a VP in a sea of bags would do nothing more then get in the way.
PITbull
Veteran
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On 6/30/2003 12:40:54 PM MarkMyWords wrote:
Can not, or will not?
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Markmywords,On 6/30/2003 12:40:54 PM MarkMyWords wrote:
Can not, or will not?
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Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
We work our flight and then help others but at some point we have to say UNCLE, I need a break.
It is not that we won't help. It is that if we help we get cut even further and we get hurt even more. We are already hurt and sore. We want to be able to walk out at the end of the night to return again the next day. Not carried out on a stretcher and not able to support our families.
We are human beings, not machines.
You cannot keep beating the work horse or it will stop and drop dead.
ClueByFour
Veteran
Failure to plan for operational disasters is a fault of upper management.
Failure to relive the crew at PHL after 24 hours without an end in sight is a failure of upper management.
Management is more than just strategy. It''s operational and managing crisis situations. US failed on both counts, or continued to empower those who failed on all counts. Either of the aforementioned is a failure on the part of senior management.
The current crop of senior execs has not done anything absent the chapter 11 hammer to get excited about, and this last incident continues to demonstrate that Dave and Dave need to step back from the utopian dream of Co-Ex the Second Coming and learn something about tactical management. Strategy is easy. Operations are hard.
Failure to relive the crew at PHL after 24 hours without an end in sight is a failure of upper management.
Management is more than just strategy. It''s operational and managing crisis situations. US failed on both counts, or continued to empower those who failed on all counts. Either of the aforementioned is a failure on the part of senior management.
The current crop of senior execs has not done anything absent the chapter 11 hammer to get excited about, and this last incident continues to demonstrate that Dave and Dave need to step back from the utopian dream of Co-Ex the Second Coming and learn something about tactical management. Strategy is easy. Operations are hard.
Absolutley, MarkmyWords. A big key to customer service in any business, as cliched as it sounds, is taking a bad situation and turning it into a "shining moment." US Airways, with all of its faults, has been very good about hiring front line employees who understand this (although many of them are furloughed, like me) Lets hope they deal with this situation proactively.
Piney, and any other customers who were affected, we apologize... it really doesnt matter who''s fault it is when you arrive without your bags.
Piney, and any other customers who were affected, we apologize... it really doesnt matter who''s fault it is when you arrive without your bags.
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On 6/30/2003 10:02:16 PM fast wrote:
Markmywords,
Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
We work our flight and then help others but at some point we have to say UNCLE, I need a break.
It is not that we won't help. It is that if we help we get cut even further and we get hurt even more. We are already hurt and sore. We want to be able to walk out at the end of the night to return again the next day. Not carried out on a stretcher and not able to support our families.
We are human beings, not machines.
You cannot keep beating the work horse or it will stop and drop dead.
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I don't mean to sound cold and unfeeling, but your statement above is total BS. Everyone loves to compare their work to WN. We want a contract like WN. We want to be alike WN. Give us a contract like WN. Well then learn to work like WN. If you have ever been to a WN station you will notice that when a plane arrives, everyone that is not doing something attacks the airplane from every angle. When the next airplane pulls into the gate, they leave a skeleton crew behind to finish and move to the next one. The same process is repeated over and over, and their staffing levels are not much different then ours. The difference is that we bank our hubs versus continuous flow. There is still no reason that the agents on B-10 can't get off the belt loader / tug and help the guys on B-8 that are getting their ### handed to them, at least until the airplane arrives on B-8. Perhaps you would find that if everyone pitched in and worked together, the job wouldn't be as overbearing. Imagine! Teamwork! People working together!On 6/30/2003 10:02:16 PM fast wrote:
Markmywords,
Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
We work our flight and then help others but at some point we have to say UNCLE, I need a break.
It is not that we won't help. It is that if we help we get cut even further and we get hurt even more. We are already hurt and sore. We want to be able to walk out at the end of the night to return again the next day. Not carried out on a stretcher and not able to support our families.
We are human beings, not machines.
You cannot keep beating the work horse or it will stop and drop dead.
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Really? Well I have never seen anyone resembling a manager pushing the employees of WN to do anything. It is called employee expectations and teamwork. The employees know what is expected of them and work together to acheive those goals. They do not need a manager to sit there and point out the obvious. Does someone have to tell you how to do everything? Do you have blinders on and are oblivious to what is going on around you? Or do you prefer to do what is minimally required?
Well, I do think that managing and encouraging team work is a management responsibility. Have the unions prevented team-work on the ramp? I haven't heard about that.
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I don't mean to sound cold and unfeeling, but your statement above is total BS. Everyone loves to compare their work to WN. We want a contract like WN. We want to be alike WN. Give us a contract like WN. Well then learn to work like WN. If you have ever been to a WN station you will notice that when a plane arrives, everyone that is not doing something attacks the airplane from every angle. When the next airplane pulls into the gate, they leave a skeleton crew behind to finish and move to the next one. The same process is repeated over and over, and their staffing levels are not much different then ours. The difference is that we bank our huns versus continuous flow. There is still no reason that the agents on B-10 can't get off the belt loader / tug and help the guys on B-8 that are getting their ### handed to them, at least until the airplane arrives on B-8. Perhaps you would find that if everyone pitched in and worked together, the job wouldn't be as overbearing. Imagine! Teamwork! People working together!
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Gee Mark, you make it sound as though the employees at WN are just managed better than the employees at U. You have to admit those individuals that your speaking of at WN dont jump from one plane to the other with out being told do so.I don't mean to sound cold and unfeeling, but your statement above is total BS. Everyone loves to compare their work to WN. We want a contract like WN. We want to be alike WN. Give us a contract like WN. Well then learn to work like WN. If you have ever been to a WN station you will notice that when a plane arrives, everyone that is not doing something attacks the airplane from every angle. When the next airplane pulls into the gate, they leave a skeleton crew behind to finish and move to the next one. The same process is repeated over and over, and their staffing levels are not much different then ours. The difference is that we bank our huns versus continuous flow. There is still no reason that the agents on B-10 can't get off the belt loader / tug and help the guys on B-8 that are getting their ### handed to them, at least until the airplane arrives on B-8. Perhaps you would find that if everyone pitched in and worked together, the job wouldn't be as overbearing. Imagine! Teamwork! People working together!
Mark Im not sure what department you work in but as you can tell by my screen name I work line maintenance.
Southwest and US Air share terminal 1 at LAX and I get a first hand look at the way they set up their shifts and manage their personnel on a daily basis. I workout with some of the guys from WN, my old next door neighbor works on the line for WN, I talk to these people on a daily basis. Dont try to insinuate that because they have different work rules than we do their better than us.
Southwest is ranked in the top 3 as one of the best places to work in the country, who do you think makes that possible? MANAGEMENT!
They treat their people well and their people respond!
They can attack the airplane from every angle because they have the personnel to do so, here at U management expects 3 people to do the work of 6 and cant understand why were not getting the job done.
The employees of U are struggling financially but yet we constantly hear of management rewarding themselves with retention bonuses or walking away with millions of dollars like Wolf and Gangwhal just did. But yet the airline keeps losing money.
Mark allow me to let you in on a little secret. My parents invested very heavily in property here on the west coast some 40 years ago and now that investment is paying off. While you go to work and worry about your mortgage and your monthly bills I dont, I know that that part of my life is taken care of. Im 44 years old and plan on retiring at the rightful old age of 50 so my wife and I can live a life you can only dream of.
I could quit this job tomorrow but I dont only because I want to feel as though I earn my paycheck, I dont want to go thru life thinking that everything I have was given to me by my parents. So please dont preach to me about work ethics!
Southwest and US Air share terminal 1 at LAX and I get a first hand look at the way they set up their shifts and manage their personnel on a daily basis. I workout with some of the guys from WN, my old next door neighbor works on the line for WN, I talk to these people on a daily basis. Dont try to insinuate that because they have different work rules than we do their better than us.
Southwest is ranked in the top 3 as one of the best places to work in the country, who do you think makes that possible? MANAGEMENT!
They treat their people well and their people respond!
They can attack the airplane from every angle because they have the personnel to do so, here at U management expects 3 people to do the work of 6 and cant understand why were not getting the job done.
The employees of U are struggling financially but yet we constantly hear of management rewarding themselves with retention bonuses or walking away with millions of dollars like Wolf and Gangwhal just did. But yet the airline keeps losing money.
Mark allow me to let you in on a little secret. My parents invested very heavily in property here on the west coast some 40 years ago and now that investment is paying off. While you go to work and worry about your mortgage and your monthly bills I dont, I know that that part of my life is taken care of. Im 44 years old and plan on retiring at the rightful old age of 50 so my wife and I can live a life you can only dream of.
I could quit this job tomorrow but I dont only because I want to feel as though I earn my paycheck, I dont want to go thru life thinking that everything I have was given to me by my parents. So please dont preach to me about work ethics!
Let me also just say that I don''t think that this applies to most employees here at U, especially in smaller stations. But stations like PHL there is a mentality that needs to change.
Tug Slug,
Congrats on your good fortune. You are truely blessed. As for the rest of us, we have a job to do. WN is better then US because then know how to utilize their employees much better. There are no hard lines drawn between union groups. They work together and they get the job done, much more effectively then we are able to. We need to rid ourselves of the mentality that we have always done things this way and adapt to change. I agree that change needs to start with management and specifically front line lower level management. In another thread PitBull and I talked about this very thing. We need to retrain our manager/supervisors on how to motivate and respect their employees. I don''t think that we would have half the morale issues if local management was able to do sucessfully integrate change with motivation and respect. But there also needs to be a level of respect between people in their own working groups. You have to be willing to lend a hand and take the blinders off on what is going on around you. In a station like PHL there are only so many shift managers on the ramp. They can''t be everywhere to tell everyone what to do. The RSS and the agents themselves need to look around and know that their help can be used somewhere else. WN staffing models are not that different from ours. The difference is that they work together versus sitting on a tug with blinders on saying that isn''t my gate.
Fast stated: Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
Well I am sorry but I have a problem with that kind of attitude. I realize that the weather factors are sometimes brutal, and yes everyone deserves a break. But is it right that a full time agent only works 3-4 flights a shift? Granted that is a fault of the design of the hub-spoke system, but if there is work to be done, do it. Do you think employees on assembly lines wouldn''t love to have a schedule where you work an hour, take a break, work an hour, go to lunch, work an hour, take a break, work an hour and go home? How about agents in our Res offices? Don''t you think that they would love to answer a few calls, take a break, answer a few calls, have lunch, etc. They are on the phone 8 solid hours with minimal breaks.
Congrats on your good fortune. You are truely blessed. As for the rest of us, we have a job to do. WN is better then US because then know how to utilize their employees much better. There are no hard lines drawn between union groups. They work together and they get the job done, much more effectively then we are able to. We need to rid ourselves of the mentality that we have always done things this way and adapt to change. I agree that change needs to start with management and specifically front line lower level management. In another thread PitBull and I talked about this very thing. We need to retrain our manager/supervisors on how to motivate and respect their employees. I don''t think that we would have half the morale issues if local management was able to do sucessfully integrate change with motivation and respect. But there also needs to be a level of respect between people in their own working groups. You have to be willing to lend a hand and take the blinders off on what is going on around you. In a station like PHL there are only so many shift managers on the ramp. They can''t be everywhere to tell everyone what to do. The RSS and the agents themselves need to look around and know that their help can be used somewhere else. WN staffing models are not that different from ours. The difference is that they work together versus sitting on a tug with blinders on saying that isn''t my gate.
Fast stated: Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
Well I am sorry but I have a problem with that kind of attitude. I realize that the weather factors are sometimes brutal, and yes everyone deserves a break. But is it right that a full time agent only works 3-4 flights a shift? Granted that is a fault of the design of the hub-spoke system, but if there is work to be done, do it. Do you think employees on assembly lines wouldn''t love to have a schedule where you work an hour, take a break, work an hour, go to lunch, work an hour, take a break, work an hour and go home? How about agents in our Res offices? Don''t you think that they would love to answer a few calls, take a break, answer a few calls, have lunch, etc. They are on the phone 8 solid hours with minimal breaks.
