Philly Bag problem

[tug_slug]

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On 7/1/2003 11:09:02 AM MarkMyWords wrote:


Let me also just say that I don''t think that this applies to most employees here at U, especially in smaller stations.  But stations like PHL there is a mentality that needs to change.

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Mark were all in this together, if U fails than we all fail.

Being here on the West coast is completely different from being on the East coast. We have a completely different set of work ethics out here than they do on the East coast. I mean no offense and Im by no means saying our work standards are better than those on the East, just different.

Management and labor have a very good rapport with one another out here. They listen to us and we listen to them. When something needs to be done management knows they can depend on us do what ever''s necessary to get the job done.

Hopefully one day both Labor and Management will work together so this airline can reach its full potential and we can all do what we came here for ... make money.

 

[gilbertguy]

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On 6/30/2003 10:02:16 PM fast wrote:

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On 6/30/2003 12:40:54 PM MarkMyWords wrote:

Can not, or will not?

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Markmywords,
Who wants to jump from plane to plane for 8 1/2 hours lifting overweight oversized bags,mail and freight. In 90 degree weather with a heat index of over 120 degrees on the tarmat.
We work our flight and then help others but at some point we have to say UNCLE, I need a break.
It is not that we won''t help. It is that if we help we get cut even further and we get hurt even more. We are already hurt and sore. We want to be able to walk out at the end of the night to return again the next day. Not carried out on a stretcher and not able to support our families.
We are human beings, not machines.
You cannot keep beating the work horse or it will stop and drop dead.


Poor Baby, WN agts as well as HP agts work in 100+ temps all summer in PHX (Hub for both) for less money and both are doing better than the deadhorse you''re beating! What crap!

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

If I was CEO Dave during this PHL bag fiasco I would''ve ran (not walked) to the PHL terminal with a sleeping cot in hand (even if I never used the cot the message would''ve been clear) and rolled up my sleeves and dispatch the bags.

For that matter I would''ve taken most of the CCY employees to PHL with me for this visit. What an opportunity to build pride in our company!

Whatever curret task at CCY that I was working on pales in comparison to this PHL customer baggage opportunity.

For that matter, I probably would''ve even learned to ride a Harley (one with a sidecar) just so I could personally deliver that bag to the passenger who was attending a wedding. Think of the advertising bonanza!

 

[fast]

Mark,
I will not get into a peeing match with you.
I don''t have the time or the energy after doing MY job and the job of three other people.
I am so tired of hearing about the (Philly Factor.) We are a hard working,and highly productive group of people. Just like all the other groups that work at all the stations.
I dont see how you can compare the Res. services to ours. Yes , they work very hard and long hours. However the job descriptions are very different and the working environment is complete opposite. You say you have a problem with our views. On behalf of the ramp agents here in PHL, I would love for you to walk a mile in our shoes. Doing the job right, with the stuff we have to deal with and getting no respect.
From the facilities, the break rooms, tar mat conditions, equipment conditions or lack of,
Did you ever wonder where the junk equipment from other stations go to? Thats right. PHL
And let us not forget to mention,
lack of the basic things that most folks have.
For example :A clean place to use the rest room. At least give us some TP we deserve that much. Heat in the winter would be nice in the break rooms, not to mention a little a/c or heck a FAN in the summer. But the fan would just blow the filth around that builds up. I think they are try to count dirt rings to mark how long we have been there.
And the JOB gets done.
Injured employees who work in fear of losing their job, Employees that are still loyal to one another and get the job done.
Come on down Mr MArkMyWords We can show you first hand what a hard days work is.
Not implying that you dont do the same mind you.
Just don''t judge lest You be judged.
The men and women of PHL derseve more respect.

 

[MarkMyWords]

TugSlug

I couldn''t agree more.

 

[fast]

Poor Baby, WN agts as well as HP agts work in 100+ temps all summer in PHX (Hub for both) for less money and both are doing better than the deadhorse you''re beating! What crap!

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100 degrees in the desert vs. 100 degrees on the east coast are 2 different things. I will work in the desert anytime

 

[MarkMyWords]

Fast -

I hate to break it to you, but I did work the ramp at one of our East Coast Hubs, so I am well aware of all of the factors that you are talking about. Been there, done that. You see, I''ve worked the ramp, catering, CLP and the tower in a hub. As for the employees of
PHL, I do have a lot of respect for many of you. You come to work every day and give it your all. Some of the Philly Factors are out of your control such as ATC. I understand that PHL presents a lot of challenges, but there are things that are self inflicted too.

Imagine you are a customer and you are sitting on an airplane watching the ground crew load and unload an airplane. The airplane pulls to the gate and there are 3 agents that casually stroll to the plane, open the doors, and roll up the belt loaders. The offload process is slow because you hae to work the front, then go to the back, then onload. Meanwhile, on the next gate there is a team of people sitting on the belt loaders, reading a book, catching some sun or chit chatting. 20-25 minutes after your flight arrived they are still offloading and the plane on the next gate finally arrives and that team goes to work. Trudging along the first team is still pounding away trying to get the 1st flight out. Finally the flight pushes back, 20 minutes late due to loading bags. Wouldn''t it have been faster for the second crew to come over and help off load the first airplane? When the 1st team is done they can go over and help the second. That is called team work. Iinstead the 2nd team watches the first get buried and when the 1st team is done, it is off to the break room, while the 2nd team goes to town. Wouldn''t it be easier and less stressful to work together at a better pace?

I am not saying this is standard practice in PHL or any other station, but I have seen it happen 100 times.

WhatKind -

Nice in theory, but you and the others from CCY would not have SIDA access and would probably just get in the way, and if you touched one bag I am sure the grievances would fly faster then the airplanes.

 

[PITbull]

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On 7/1/2003 809 AM MarkMyWords wrote:


Really?  Well I have never seen anyone resembling a manager pushing the employees of WN to do anything.  It is called employee expectations and teamwork.  The employees know what is expected of them and work together to acheive those goals.  They do not need a manager to sit there and point out the obvious.  Does someone have to tell you how to do everything?  Do you have blinders on and are oblivious to what is going on around you?  Or do you prefer to do what is minimally required?

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Mark,

The difference here in mangements is WN employees know what to do because they have been "inspired" by their leadership to act. Again, it comes from upper management.

 

[PITbull]

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On 6/30/2003 9:59:56 PM ClueByFour wrote:

Failure to plan for operational disasters is a fault of upper management.

Failure to relive the crew at PHL after 24 hours without an end in sight is a failure of upper management.

Management is more than just strategy. It''s operational and managing crisis situations. US failed on both counts, or continued to empower those who failed on all counts. Either of the aforementioned is a failure on the part of senior management.

The current crop of senior execs has not done anything absent the chapter 11 hammer to get excited about, and this last incident continues to demonstrate that Dave and Dave need to step back from the utopian dream of Co-Ex the Second Coming and learn something about tactical management. Strategy is easy. Operations are hard.

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Clue,

I have to agree with you again...."big time".

 

[diogenes]

FWIW, there is nothing in the Fleet Service Agreement that prohibits management from allocated personnel as they see fit. The exact language is "...management may change the duty assignments..."

However personnel are allocated in ANY station is up to the boss, based on the needs of the service. Management is not supposed to take a structural problem (known staffing shortages, access problems at the facility, etc.), call it ''temporary'', and screw the agents. But they do.

 

[Dea Certe]

MarkmyWords said "Nice in theory, but you and the others from CCY would not have SIDA access and would probably just get in the way, and if you touched one bag I am sure the grievances would fly faster then the airplanes."

How hard would it be for them to get SIDA badges? Haven''t they been fingerprinted and background checked like the rest of us? Since they are supposed to be running this company, shouldn''t they have access to all areas so they can see exactly how things work or don''t work?

Could the IAM be approached and asked if the CCY people could do a little "hands-on" so they could fully understand the problems faced by the employees? I would welcome CCY on my flights, provided they actually work for a few weeks to get a fuller understanding of what goes on inflight. It seems to me it would behoove management to have a complete picture of daily operations.

Since PHL is the "Crown Jewel" of our system, let them start there. Not for just one day, but for a week or two. This could only be for the good of the operation. How can they have any clue exactly what goes on and what needs to change if they don''t experience for themselves?

Dea

 

[fast]

Mark,
There is no accountability in your thinking.
If I am responsible for that flight and what goes on it I want to put it there.
So your thoughts are GREAT in theory and work great in small stations however, It is my hide on the line and my responsiblity that my plane is loaded correctly. And can rest at night night knowing I did my part and got those folks to their destination as safely as I could. THat is MY job. Those guys standing there waiting on the next flight have the same thoughts.
AND
Management in PHL will write you up if you are helping someone else and your flight takes a delay. AND while I am being a good TEAM PLAYER someone steals my equipment that I had to set up for my flight. And again I dont have equipment to work my flight... Management will write me up. I too have worked all over and know the ropes for every department as you say.
ANd the running of an airport is a wonderful, complex thing. Many things have to mesh together to make things work. And do you remember who makes it all happen? THE EMPLOYEES.
management has dont nothing to make them happy.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Diogenes - I agree that the movement/reassignment of people should not be doen to cover up staffing shortages. In the last week or so PHL has add 50 people to it''s employee compliment on the ramp. Hopefully this will help.

Dea - I don''t believe that employees in CCY have been finger printed or background checked. I know that in my office it wasn''t necessary because we do not have access to the airplanes. I agree that some people need to get out of their office and see how the "real world" operates. It is great to sit in an office or cubicle and make these great plans. but it is another to put them in real time. PHL is a perfect example. On a "good day" PHL ATC can handle 50 arrivals an hour (made up figure to prove a point) so marketing goes and schedules 50 arrivals for the 9:00 hour. How many "good days" does PHL ATC really have? Why do we continue to schedule for the good days when the bad out number the good? The same holds true for the staffing models that the number crunchers use. They always plan for the "good days" and never allow for irregularities. What is more likely to happen? A good day or an irregular one? As for CCY approaching the IAM or even the CWA about coming to the ATO''s to help out....that was one of Daves plans when he first got here. But the minute they tried to do anything to help out, they were threatened with grievences.

Fast - Don''t give me that BS. All you are doing is making excuses to fail and not providing ideas to succeed. That accountability statement is total BS. All it takes is for the people in the back of the airplane to tell the lead exactly what they loaded onboard before they run to their flight. And if you are so concerned with the onload, then why can''t someone else help you offload? Are there accountability issues there too? Management is not goingto write you up for helping someone else, and I wasn''t suggesting that you ignore your original responsibility.

 

[wench]

The "white coller boys at Fort Fumble" as a suggestion should spend a day in Baggage Circus and TAKE Claims...
In PHL that is..
They should have a name tag ",Hi my name is so and so,I''m one of the VP''s for this company."

Then go to work...!This will not happen,the public will chew them up and SPIT THEM OUT>>And rightly so!

Cowards all with yellow streaks down their backs...

 

[ClueByFour]

Said it before in the thread and it has not been addressed. To rehash:

Failure to plan for operational hiccups, or even disasters, is a failure on the part of management.

All of the infighting in the thread about union this or management "field trip" that does not change the fact that somebody at Fort Fumble appointed the wrong field management to PHL, failed to audit the availability and redundant characteristics of a critical infrastructure component, or both.

That much is not in dispute. Somehow, however, I suspect that nobody at CCY will own up to that fact, nor do I think the necessary number of heads will roll. With the execption or Ursey (sp?) (who is really the scapegoat for BBB who is the real problem), it''s the same bunch of losers that Dave''s had in the joint since Day 1.

Want to know why you see very few airline execs who did not spend an entire career doing airline stuff? Their track record of results would not get them in the door at any other Fortune 500 firm. The notable exception to this is anyone who has some LUV tenure on the resume.

You can''t be a strategist without mastering operations. This has not yet sunk in on the crew at Fort Fumble. Based on what I''ve seen in the last few months, I''m not optimistic.