Pilot and Mechanic Shortage

[strikeforce]

So now you are threatening to engage in potentially illegal job action that would undermine and impede AA's operations. Passengers aren't party to this non-sense and will book with other carriers. The customer is your friend not your enemy-we sign your paychecks and keep the lights on at AA. You can spin it as the traveling public showing solidarity to the workers if you'd like but most people just want reliable, safe, and clean transportation to their destination.

Josh

You call it illegal job actions.....the FAA, Aircraft mechanics and maybe some at AA, call it doing OUR jobs!! Too bad the flying public doesn't really know the ins and outs of aircraft maintenance......but WE do, and it's not all like it's made out to be. The only thing keeping you safe in the air is OUR moral values as human beings and taking pride in OUR work. We're not looking for an award, all WE want is to be compensated fairly and recognized for our contributions for saving AA, and the company can give a damn. And, that's ok because I will do my job and if that causes delays or cancellations.....I can give a damn too!!!
And quite honestly, Josh, I don't see my customer friends backing me when I do informational picketing, or demanding that AA pay US a fair wage.....the last time I did Info. picketing the customer gave me the "bird"! Thanks friend!

Josh, when I do my job......you and others get safe and reliable transportation, but I can't guarantee that it will be "on time".

 

[Bob Owens]

Maybe, but get outside the US, and you they typically have one car or less per household, less than half the square footage of the typical American house, might eat out once or twice a month, and if they do, it's at an actual restaurant, and not something in a bag from a drive-thru or cookie cutter restaurant like Chili's. Oh, and they typically pay cash. Credit? Not so much.

Sure but most of those countries have very good mass transit systems so two cars arent needed, (NYC has a great mass transit system and most families in Manhattan dont own any cars), the homes are permanent, built from stone or brick that lasts for centuries with slate roofs that last for generations instead of pressboard and asphalt and vinyl. They work less hours so they have the time to prepare wholesome meals for their families and yes they do pay cash because they see more of it than we do where workers were forced into direct deposit.

How much are the AA overhaul mechanics in Europe earning?

More than the AA overhaul mechanics in New York. Their Line mechanics earn around $45/hr vs our $32/hr.

It's closer to 250,000-300,000 seats per day. Not so difficult to replace, given how much capacity other airlines are pulling back, and the fact that some percentage (half?) of AA's seats only get filled because they're on sale.

Nobody replaced Aloha, ATA, or National when they liquidated. You might see a few more flights added into DFW and MIA, but LAX, ORD, and NYC have enough carriers to soak up the rest.

Aloha and ATA combined had nowhere near the capacity of AA and National merged with Pan Am. When Pan Am liquidated they were a shell of what they once were and other carriers picked up what was worth picking up, along with most of their mechanics and pilots, AA even hired mechanics in the 60s.

As far as the numbers of passengers I was using the math that AA used when they claimed that a 24 hour job action(their claim) caused the cancellation of hundreds of flights.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks friend!

Josh is our friend!

 

[Hopeful]

So now you are threatening to engage in potentially illegal job action that would undermine and impede AA's operations. Passengers aren't party to this non-sense and will book with other carriers. The customer is your friend not your enemy-we sign your paychecks and keep the lights on at AA. You can spin it as the traveling public showing solidarity to the workers if you'd like but most people just want reliable, safe, and clean transportation to their destination.

Josh

Let me tell you something, Josh...Since AA's issues with MD80 wiring and other non related fines, AA has benn continually training and drilling into our heads that THEY WILL NOT TOLERATE AND DEVIATION FROM THE REQUIRED PROCEDUES AND MANUALS! The one word they have been tattooing into our heads is VERBATIM!
You see, Josh, in the past, the aircraft mechanics was allowed SOME latitude in SOME instances.
You're 5 minutes away from departure and a coffeemaker starts leaking. The crew calls maintenance. The mechanic, knowing what the problem is, automatically brings out a replacement coffeemaker to save the ontime departure. He may even hustle to save the delay!
But, alas, my friend, I am no allowed the latitude to just replace it and sign the E6.

Now I will come out to aircraft first..evaluate the leak for myself..Then go back to the office to consult the manual and make sure I have the right part number. Then of course i have to locate the removal and replacement procedures. Depending on internet traffic, what oonce was normally NOT a delayable item, now has become one.

And before you or anyone responds with the sophmoric response that "WELL YOU SHOULD ALWAYS USE THE PROPER PROCEDURES," items like these are those items that an FAA inspector in the past would never expect you to pull paperwork.
Same thing goes for seat belts and reading lights!

 

[strikeforce]

Passengers aren't party to this non-sense and will book with other carriers.

Josh

You think other carriers don't have the same problems. the problems are systemic...just ask any front line employee at UA, DL/NW, CO, you name it. Airlines bigger than AA went bye bye....and why is that, Josh???? One common denominator "management"! they make horrible decisions be it marketing, airplane purchasing, upgrades, frequent flyer programs, aircraft maintenance, slots.....whatever they decided made customers go to other airlines. The likes of Lorenzo, Icahn, Tilton, Carty, Arpey and all the others are the real culprits to the demise of one industry. Yet, all of these goofs will walk away RICH, and hunreds of thousands of good employees will just walk away to the unemployment lines and personal bankruptcy courts. Like you said, WE are not party to the non-sense management creates, but WE are party to the soup kitchens.

 

[eolesen]

National merged with Pan Am.

As far as the numbers of passengers I was using the math that AA used when they claimed that a 24 hour job action(their claim) caused the cancellation of hundreds of flights.

National was based at LAS and shut down a few years ago.

I'm sure you're interpreting AA's numbers incorrectly., 900,000 is statistically impossible over 24 hours.

 

[Bob Owens]

National was based at LAS and shut down a few years ago.

I'm sure you're interpreting AA's numbers incorrectly., 900,000 is statistically impossible over 24 hours.

How many flights did they have?


Exactly!

 

[eolesen]

How many flights did they have?

They carried around 2m pax a year, and served 15 cities or so. All 757s. No idea how many flights.

Point is that "too big to fail" is probably not something I'd count on right now, Bob.


And as for your blacklisting comment... Did your hero Charlie ever work as an AMT again? Should there will be as many AMTs out of work following an AA shutdown as there would be, you really shouldn't have to wonder about the future prospects for a guy like you who has made a mini-career out of criticizing his employer and previously, his union.

I know, it takes guts to put your name on the line when you're passionate about your cause, but you really should not be be surprised if there are consequences at some point for your own words, actions, or affiliations.

 

[strikeforce]

They carried around 2m pax a year, and served 15 cities or so. All 757s. No idea how many flights.

Point is that "too big to fail" is probably not something I'd count on right now, Bob.


And as for your blacklisting comment... Did your hero Charlie ever work as an AMT again? Should there will be as many AMTs out of work following an AA shutdown as there would be, you really shouldn't have to wonder about the future prospects for a guy like you who has made a mini-career out of criticizing his employer and previously, his union.

I know, it takes guts to put your name on the line when you're passionate about your cause, but you really should not be be surprised if there are consequences at some point for your own words, actions, or affiliations.

I don't know about Bob, but if I lose my job as a result of BK....I will never work in the airline industry again!!! It has been absolutely disastrous.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Doesn’t matter how bad employees have been screwed at other airlines; they figured out that you either accept the reality and do the job you are being hired to do or your airline fails and you are out on the street.
.
All the talk of “we’ll burn it down” (remember UA’s “we’ll squeeze the golden goose…” mantra?) somehow dissipates as soon as the first couple “new” paychecks become reality – and employees at every other airline have managed to do what they have to do run the airline that pays their bills.
.
So, we are FORCED to take on debt, Bob? Kinda like “the devil made me buy that car?”… no, every one of us makes the choice to either live within, above, or below our means (and thus save)…. We all have faced economic unexpected challenges and had to adjust our economic expectations – maybe even taking on debt in the process – but those who choose to right their financial ship do so as quickly as they can – and make changes to their lifestyles to meet their financial goals.
.
There are Americans who are running around Europe and SE Asia frolicking with their wealth; is that any indication of how the vast majority of Americans are doing any more than spotting Europeans shopping in NYC indicates the value of the currency.
BTW – I suspect a lot of European vacation plans to the US just got put on ice unless the Euro makes a pretty hasty return. All of a sudden, economists are saying the dollar might be the safest of the large global currency options…. And all the US did was to sit around and wait for everyone else’s problems to blow up.
.
Brazilians are now the largest source of foreign visitor consumer spending in the US.
.
Strike,
When the American government denies the benefits that were promised to current SS recipients, then the American people probably too will rise up and revolt just like the Europeans.
But that hasn’t happened and Washington won’t be dump enough to outright deny the benefits… they’ll slowly chip away – having learned from Europe’s mistakes. Sort of like the frog thrown into the pot of cold water over an open flame vs. one that is thrown into boiling water.
.
There is no assurance that ANY airline will survive, but esp. one in BK now. Assuming you can give the middle finger to AA, expect them to just “take it,” and then carry on with your reduced paycheck could very well be a lethal act for AA’s future. Sure, industry leadership learned from Eastern’s labor problems and have managed to keep it from happening again but AA could not face a more difficult economic and competitive situation in which to restructure. Downplay the risk at the peril of your future and that of everyone else that is connected to AA.
.
The industry collectively is pulling down several percent of capacity over the next year based on current guidance, has airplanes on order that were intended as replacement but could quickly become growth aircraft, and the system would welcome less capacity.
E is absolutely right… the threat of “AA is too big to fail or BE ALLOWED TO FAIL” won’t be heard by anyone.
.
Based on AA’s July traffic report, they carried 246,600 passengers per day on average.

 

[strikeforce]

Doesn’t matter how bad employees have been screwed at other airlines; they figured out that you either accept the reality and do the job you are being hired to do or your airline fails and you are out on the street.
.
All the talk of “we’ll burn it down” (remember UA’s “we’ll squeeze the golden goose…” mantra?) somehow dissipates as soon as the first couple “new” paychecks become reality – and employees at every other airline have managed to do what they have to do run the airline that pays their bills.
.
So, we are FORCED to take on debt, Bob? Kinda like “the devil made me buy that car?”… no, every one of us makes the choice to either live within, above, or below our means (and thus save)…. We all have faced economic unexpected challenges and had to adjust our economic expectations – maybe even taking on debt in the process – but those who choose to right their financial ship do so as quickly as they can – and make changes to their lifestyles to meet their financial goals.
.
There are Americans who are running around Europe and SE Asia frolicking with their wealth; is that any indication of how the vast majority of Americans are doing any more than spotting Europeans shopping in NYC indicates the value of the currency.
BTW – I suspect a lot of European vacation plans to the US just got put on ice unless the Euro makes a pretty hasty return. All of a sudden, economists are saying the dollar might be the safest of the large global currency options…. And all the US did was to sit around and wait for everyone else’s problems to blow up.
.
Brazilians are now the largest source of foreign visitor consumer spending in the US.
.
Strike,
When the American government denies the benefits that were promised to current SS recipients, then the American people probably too will rise up and revolt just like the Europeans.
But that hasn’t happened and Washington won’t be dump enough to outright deny the benefits… they’ll slowly chip away – having learned from Europe’s mistakes. Sort of like the frog thrown into the pot of cold water over an open flame vs. one that is thrown into boiling water.
.
There is no assurance that ANY airline will survive, but esp. one in BK now. Assuming you can give the middle finger to AA, expect them to just “take it,” and then carry on with your reduced paycheck could very well be a lethal act for AA’s future. Sure, industry leadership learned from Eastern’s labor problems and have managed to keep it from happening again but AA could not face a more difficult economic and competitive situation in which to restructure. Downplay the risk at the peril of your future and that of everyone else that is connected to AA.
.
The industry collectively is pulling down several percent of capacity over the next year based on current guidance, has airplanes on order that were intended as replacement but could quickly become growth aircraft, and the system would welcome less capacity.
E is absolutely right… the threat of “AA is too big to fail or BE ALLOWED TO FAIL” won’t be heard by anyone.
.
Based on AA’s July traffic report, they carried 246,600 passengers per day on average.

The airline will do whatever is necessary to become competitive, even BK, and I will do whatever is necessary to protect my license and family. I've taken it in the shorts for 8 years and I'm not willing to help the thieves at the top anymore. I am giving senior management the middle finger because they screwed up a pretty good company and have beaten down good employees. If our union leadership is unwilling to protect my best interest.....the hell with everyone and I'll move on when the time comes......In the meantime, AA will not go unpunished for putting me in this situation because the greedy bastards at the top deserve it!!!

Our gov't leaders are stupid and they will find a way to screw up SS and Medicare.....just like they've screwed up the whole economy. Don't underestimate the stupidity in Washington!

 

[Bob Owens]

And as for your blacklisting comment... Did your hero Charlie ever work as an AMT again? Should there will be as many AMTs out of work following an AA shutdown as there would be, you really shouldn't have to wonder about the future prospects for a guy like you who has made a mini-career out of criticizing his employer and previously, his union.

I know, it takes guts to put your name on the line when you're passionate about your cause, but you really should not be be surprised if there are consequences at some point for your own words, actions, or affiliations.

Don't know if Charlie ever even tried, I suspect he found something else to do, as I would. In NY you can always find some way of making money, do you think that we just sit back and rely on the airlines? I'm not worried.

 

[Bob Owens]

So, we are FORCED to take on debt, Bob? Kinda like “the devil made me buy that car?”… no, every one of us makes the choice to either live within, above, or below our means (and thus save)…. We all have faced economic unexpected challenges and had to adjust our economic expectations – maybe even taking on debt in the process – but those who choose to right their financial ship do so as quickly as they can – and make changes to their lifestyles to meet their financial goals.

Forced to take on debt when your employer cuts your pay, freezes it for eight years and jacks up the price they charge for medical benefits by 600%. The concessions were 25% , the benefit cost increase alone was another 5% , my property taxes went from $6k to $10k then throw in around 3% inflation annual inflation for another 24% and yes, we were forced to take on debt. New car? Mine is a 1993 model with 293,000, my car insurance went up as well, it was old before we took the cuts. The companies expectation that we will continue to work for less and less while they bring in more and more is unrealistic. You say we should adjust our standards, why, to accommodate the insatiable greed of our employer, our employer who reduced headcount by over 30% yet saw their revenues increase by as much as $5 billion? Why should we do without? I'm prepared to lay it all on the line to put and end to trying to satisfy the insatiable, are the owners of AA willing to do the same?

 

[Runwaysticker]

Acording to the BTS, go to thier websit bts.gov us airline employment grew 2.4% since july 2010

 

[WorldTraveler]

Forced to take on debt when your employer cuts your pay, freezes it for eight years and jacks up the price they charge for medical benefits by 600%. The concessions were 25% , the benefit cost increase alone was another 5% , my property taxes went from $6k to $10k then throw in around 3% inflation annual inflation for another 24% and yes, we were forced to take on debt. New car? Mine is a 1993 model with 293,000, my car insurance went up as well, it was old before we took the cuts. The companies expectation that we will continue to work for less and less while they bring in more and more is unrealistic. You say we should adjust our standards, why, to accommodate the insatiable greed of our employer, our employer who reduced headcount by over 30% yet saw their revenues increase by as much as $5 billion? Why should we do without? I'm prepared to lay it all on the line to put and end to trying to satisfy the insatiable, are the owners of AA willing to do the same?

but wait, are your increased taxes, car insurance, and medical costs AA's cause?
I don't think so.
Sounds to me like you were typical of most Americans in spending every dollar you made even before AA cut your pay in 2003.
The compound effect of increased taxes, cost of living, and other factors combined with the pay cuts are too much for your budget... given that AA doesn't tell you how to spend your money, it is up to you to figure out how to make ends meet.
.
the "you" here doesn't mean you, Bob Owens, alone, but every one of us that has to live with the reality that jobs are not stable any where, costs go up beyond our control, and the government continues to reach deeper into our pockets.
The fact that your personal budget doesn't balance is not your employer's problem, whoever your employer is and no matter how many pay raises or pay cuts you have been subjected to.