Pilot Thoughts, Ideas, Beliefs...

[aislehopper]

I thought the dispatchers decided to do away with union representation? If they didn't and they voted no on concessions....Good for them! UNITY PAYS!

No, you are confusing the Dispatchers with the Pilot Ground Instructors. The Ground Instructors who organized in 1999 and later decertified the TWU in August of 2002. Check your facts.

Unity is not always a good idea. For example, Guyana, November 18, 1978.

 

[luv2fly]

NH/BB's

Last year, DALPA said they would give 9% plus give up the May 1 raise.
Now, DALPA is talking about giving up 15-20%.\





[/quote]
At no time has DALPA offered 15-20%. You are misinformed.

 

[luv2fly]

deleted

 

[luv2fly]

The rank and file pilot will resent ALPA selling them out. It is a lose/ lose for them.

I hope that that is not the case.

There should be no resentment towards ALPA as any agreement would be subject to membership ratification. The pilots would determine whether or not any such agreement would pass.

I too hope that BK is not the case, but if Jerry really needs 30%+, in my opinion, it will be. I am unclear as to why he wouldn't take the 13% now as it would provide Delta immediate relief. There has been no negotiating by the company's side. It has been a take it or leave it scenario, and for the time being, ALPA is leaving it. Too much stubborness on both sides. Not really a good time for a game of chicken.

 

[flyhigh]

...the reason they won't settle for 13% is because it won't fix a very broken ship. I concur with aislehopper's point that an 1113 hearing is not the most enviable path, but Jerry seems very intent, rightfully so, on fixing this ship. To take 13% now doesn't make the company profitable in the short or long term, so what would be the point? Conversely, by taking 13% now, it puts ALPA in a position to not negotiate the remaining 17% needed to fix things.

If the employees on the titanic has only fixed 13% of the gapping hold the iceberg cut, would the ship have sank still? YES...why not fix the problem.

 

[luv2fly]

...the reason they won't settle for 13% is because it won't fix a very broken ship. To take 13% now doesn't make the company profitable in the short or long term, so what would be the point? Conversely, by taking 13% now, it puts ALPA in a position to not negotiate the remaining 17% needed to fix things.

If the employees on the titanic has only fixed 13% of the gapping hold the iceberg cut, would the ship have sank still? YES...why not fix the problem.

I got news for you. If you really think that pilot pay is going to save this "sinking ship" you are already sunk. :down:
You want us to bail the titanic with a tin cup. A 30% pay cut will not fix the problem. That 30% would all in all likelyhood translate in another round of cuts, more threats of BK, or even used to fund another ridiculous round of fare wars.
What you don't realize is that pilot pay is not the reason Delta is in the financial position it's in today. Even so, the pilots are ready to help again. Just like we did in '96.
But like I said earlier, I believe if the company doesn't come off these ridiculous numbers, you might as well start heading for the lifeboats.

 

[flyhigh]

...ok, Delta is the worst performing major carrier excluding US who has major structural issues and an inefficient workforce. Against other mainline carriers (AA, UA, CO, NW) all of our costs are in line with theirs except pilot costs. CO will post a profit this year, as will AA & NW will be pretty close if they don't. We will loose $1 billion. What's the problem then??? There are, as I've already said, other areas to trim, but none that will individually or cummulatively bring us back to profitability other than pilot costs. These are realities. You may not choose to accept that, but it is the case.

 

[DCT JVL]

If you are interested about PAFCA and the dispatchers at DAL
see Here

 

[michael707767]

...ok, Delta is the worst performing major carrier excluding US who has major structural issues and an inefficient workforce. Against other mainline carriers (AA, UA, CO, NW) all of our costs are in line with theirs except pilot costs. CO will post a profit this year, as will AA & NW will be pretty close if they don't. We will loose $1 billion. What's the problem then??? There are, as I've already said, other areas to trim, but none that will individually or cummulatively bring us back to profitability other than pilot costs. These are realities. You may not choose to accept that, but it is the case.

Actually, that is not reality. Pilot cuts will not save Delta. The NWA pilot pay is only 13% below the DAL pilot pay. Certainly not enough to account for the difference between NWA showing a profit and DAL losing 1 billion. There need to be deep cuts in other areas. To cut the pilot pay to the NWA level would only save 2-300million a year. What accounts for the other 700mil a year??

 

[flyhigh]

...cheap planes. NW owns a lot of old planes that are cheap to own. Add to that a hub (MSP) that faces almost NO LCC competition, two secondary hubs (DTW & MEM) that have little LCC competition, and an entire Pacific unit that faces little competition where they derive 20% of bookings, you get a near profitable airline. Conversely, if you look at DL, three secondary hubs (CVG, DFW, SLC) that have significant competition (DFW & SLC with LCC), ATL having an LCC hubbed in it, and newer planes...it's actually quite easy to understand why NW is much closer to profit than DL. The one business unit that DL faces less competition on (secondary Trans-Atlantic) is where DL is doing quite well.....

 

[Andre1980]

On top of all of what was said about the reason NW is 'doing better' than DL is the fact that they have lowered all their costs without the help of labour e.g fuel by hedging, negotiated landing fees at airports (which would be easy for NW to do at their hub airports since they have a huge market share in them) and also they have been buying quite a few of airbus aircraft that I may speculate may not be costing them that much sense Airbus tends to offer better deals than Boeing (from what I have been hearing) especially if they are dealing with US carriers. However, NW was unable to hedge fuel this quarter and this will cause a little concern for management.

What I must add that although NW is in a 'not so bad situation' is primarily due to them selling most of their assets and a good example was their last quarter of 2004 but they made large operational losses and that is not good and they are asking for their employees to give ONE BILLION in concessions but I don't think they will give in. On the other hand I believe AA and CO will achieve profits this year since they both have been getting strong operational profits in the last 2 reported quaters. NW will be profitable also but I do not think they may be as profitable as the two mentioned above.

DL has also been posting operational profits which would mean that they are not burning cash but management at DL knows that they must achieve net profits in order to have a brighter future and to keep up with the competition but management and pilots must compromise in order to keep DL's head above water.

 

[firstamendment]

No, I'm not a pilot, but I do fly. It's time for corporate greed to STOP and the DL pilots seem to agree!

Majority of you non-union folks at DL always b*tch and complain because the pilots will not give in. This is their right because they have a CONTRACT and the rest of you don't! If you hate when DL management just takes your pay, benefits and other things away when they please, then organize!

You have a good point.

I can only hope my AFA dues NEVER again go to the attempt of unionizing the DAL f/a's. They are no longer worth a dime of my hard earned money. They don't want us, so the hell with them. Just let me enjoy their complaining about how "it would be different if the vote were today". ...yeah, right. <_<

 

[firstamendment]

...ok, Delta is the worst performing major carrier excluding US who has major structural issues and an inefficient workforce. Against other mainline carriers (AA, UA, CO, NW) all of our costs are in line with theirs except pilot costs. CO will post a profit this year, as will AA & NW will be pretty close if they don't. We will loose $1 billion. What's the problem then??? There are, as I've already said, other areas to trim, but none that will individually or cummulatively bring us back to profitability other than pilot costs. These are realities. You may not choose to accept that, but it is the case.

My friend, the workforce of US is not inefficiant. MANAGEMENT is inefficient. They asked for cuts, not once, but twice. If there were inefficiencies, why didn't management deal with it both times AND in backruptcy. And now they want more?

You need to get your facts straight.

 

[flyhigh]

first...

The US workforce is inefficient. When I say that, I'm speaking not from the viewpoint of saying they are lazy, but more to the point that the route structure at US makes it almost impossible to have an efficient workforce. You could work for free at US and still be inefficient...because of the primarily short-haul route structure, US requires a lot of employees per plane, and has little opportunity to spread costs out along a route. This is part of the reason that they have tried to get into some int'l mkts (wisely). While adding lots of RJ's will help, US needs to find a way to more long haul and get more utilization out of aircraft...

 

[firstamendment]

first...

The US workforce is inefficient. When I say that, I'm speaking not from the viewpoint of saying they are lazy, but more to the point that the route structure at US makes it almost impossible to have an efficient workforce. You could work for free at US and still be inefficient...because of the primarily short-haul route structure, US requires a lot of employees per plane, and has little opportunity to spread costs out along a route. This is part of the reason that they have tried to get into some int'l mkts (wisely). While adding lots of RJ's will help, US needs to find a way to more long haul and get more utilization out of aircraft...

I realize that, but management at US has been so busy blaming labor and not paying attention to the growth at LUV and JB, Anytime that want, this group can change the face of US Airways. It is management's job to figure these things out and they have failed miserably. Get this...management honestly didn't anticiipate JB's growth. Where have THEY been for the last four years? Now, a change a stradegy comes with a cost... MORE concessions. The employees are frustrated because we should not be blackmailed for management to do their job. Who are the leaders here?