Pilot to pilot squabbles

[phasersonstun2]

The seniority posturing is deja vu for the U, PSA, Shuttle and PI pilots. This merger is unique. Here are some probable guarantees:

* A-330 flying will be fenced (U) until the A-350's arrive.

* 767 I flying will be fenced (U) for 5 years.

* 757 flying in PHX/LAS may be fenced (AWA) for 2 years.

* Airbus flying may be fenced in PHX/LAS for 2 years.

ISSUES

I have been in this airline business since 1978 and been a part of six airline seniority integrations. The following is what is likely to happen IN MY OPINION.

SITUATION:

A U pilot with 1983 seniority can hold a Reserve 757 C/O position, while an AWA pilot with 1998 seniority can hold a Reserve 757 C/O position. While anyone on the AWA list from 1983 to 1998 can hold a 757 C/O position, and by all rights should keep it, any new flying created in any base after a certain date will be up for bid across the system. This goes for all equipment except for the 767 and A-330, which will have fences.

A U pilot who has been on the property on or before 1983 will probably not go junior to any AWA pilot, save a handful of senior 757 pilots.

No AWA C/O will lose their seat to a U pilot, unless he/she bids off of the aircraft.

THE SENIORITY LIST

Several possibilities:

DOH with fences for PHX flying - UNLIKELY - windfall for U

DOH with no fences - NO CHANCE - windfall for U

DOH to 1982 + SLOT 1/1 - POSSIBLE

DOH to 1980 + SLOT 1/1 - POSSIBLE

DOH to 1978 + SLOT 1/1 - UNLIKELY - windfall for AWA

STRAIGHT SLOT 1/1 - NO CHANCE - windfall for AWA

Chances are the list will be a build of the very senior U list until a certain year or seniority number, then the insertion of the AWA list by either DOH or a 1/1 slot to a certain year or seniority number then a 1/1 fold to fill in the junior ranks.

The list on both sides is weighted with pilots who could hold positions on multiple pieces of equipment/seats. For instance, the U list has 1982 seniority pilots who are flying narrow-body C/O domestic who can hold 767 I C/O reserve. There are also pilots who are flying A-330 F/O who could also hold A-330 C/O.


SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT
The U pilot list will lose over 1,500 pilots between now and 2015. EVERY AWA pilot hired 1998 or earlier who is 45 years or younger will be flying A-330/350 C/O by then.

However the list is decided, we must be fair and quickly move ahead after the list is complete.

 

[av8or]

what about relative seniority slotting?

 

[aquagreen73s]

The combined pilot list will be constructed using subgroup populations. I think the toughest issue is what to do with the 88-89 furloughees at U who have 13+ years of longevity, are rather old now, and are in a considerably different situation than the 98-00 furloughees.

My breakdown of the subgroups. Like I said, the tough issue will be the integration of group VI so that they aren't arbitrarily stuck with group VII but are integrated with the least amount of impact on group V.

I. pre-83 U.

II. 83-86 (Captains at both U and AWA)

III. 87-91 (Captains at AWA, all remaining active f/os at U)

IV. 96-98 (junior AWA captains)

V. 99-04 (all active F/os at AWA)

VI. 88-91 (furloughed f/os at U who are rather old now and have accrued enough longevity to make them senior AWA f/os or junior captains even though they spent almost a decade on furlough from U.)

VII. 98-00 (furloughed U pilots who are for the most part considerably younger than group VI and have accrued 4 years of longevity or less at U).

 

[phasersonstun2]

The pre 1998 furlougees from old U will have to be recalled with some if not all credit toward their years of service. The post 1998 furloghees might end up covering the end of the seniority list, or be slotted in based on YOS.

 

[CapnCockroach]

"A U pilot who has been on the property on or before 1983 will probably not go junior to any AWA pilot, save a handful of senior 757 pilots."

I have to disagree with that. The U pilots are the losers. The AWA pilots are the winners. They should prevail. Period. Number 1 U should go to Number 1500 or 1600 AWA (or U West as you like to call it).

The AWA pilots can do your "senior" job with no problems.
It's all been done before.

SAVE DAVE!!

 

[Atlantic]

We will see how good you are roach when you have your ride in CLT!

 

[Phoenix]

We will see how good you are roach when you have your ride in CLT!

I'm sure he will find the check pilots to be as professional as he is capable.

 

[fr8tmastr]

speaking of pilot squabbles, where is usa320pilot?

 

[phasersonstun2]

The U pilots are the losers. The AWA pilots are the winners. They should prevail. Period. Number 1 U should go to Number 1500 or 1600 AWA (or U West as you like to call it).

The AWA pilots can do your "senior" job with no problems.
It's all been done before.

SAVE DAVE!!

Roach, I'm sure you would love that scenario. Either you like to stir the pot or are just absolutely incapable of rational thought, or need to have your urine screened... maybe all three. Before you respond to this, read the ALPA merger policy, and do your homework on the past ALPA mergers. You'll soon see that your statement echoes the sentiments of the uninformed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

"A U pilot who has been on the property on or before 1983 will probably not go junior to any AWA pilot, save a handful of senior 757 pilots."

I have to disagree with that. The U pilots are the losers. The AWA pilots are the winners. They should prevail. Period. Number 1 U should go to Number 1500 or 1600 AWA (or U West as you like to call it).

The AWA pilots can do your "senior" job with no problems.
It's all been done before.

SAVE DAVE!!

You're never going to pass a random drug test, are you?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

As an AWA pilot I'd like to say that CapnCockroach does not speak for me, the scenario he describes would not make me happy at all. This thread was started by a gentleman with unemotional logic and reason, its a shame the pot stirring posturing had to rear its ugly head.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Well, it might not be pot-stirring. It's a matter of character and personality. Some people prefer living in the light of truth and reason, even if it leads one to conclusions that are not particularly in self-interest. Others don't have that preference and prefer to have their perceived self-interest influence or dictate their perception of reality and truth.

That's why the internet is so helpful, cuz you get to understand these people's point of view without having to actually know them.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'm with Lynyrd. It's a shame guys like Cockroach feel compelled to open their traps. Neither side is the winner here.

AWA FO (very junior)
ex-TWA

 

[phasersonstun2]

My point in starting this thread was not to promote one seniority method over another, but to facilitate reasonable dialogue (through text) about seniority.

The U retirement projections will help everyone, including the AWA pilot group. We should all celebrate that.

After we all peruse the new list and absorb our new career expectation, we will hopefully work toward the survival and GROWTH of the new carrier, since it will be expansion that creates the high tide that will raise all boats.

 

[2BorNot2B]

"A U pilot who has been on the property on or before 1983 will probably not go junior to any AWA pilot, save a handful of senior 757 pilots."

I have to disagree with that. The U pilots are the losers. The AWA pilots are the winners. They should prevail. Period. Number 1 U should go to Number 1500 or 1600 AWA (or U West as you like to call it).

The AWA pilots can do your "senior" job with no problems.
It's all been done before.

SAVE DAVE!!

:down:

You BEAUCOUP Dinkey-Dau, GI!! Numba 10!!