OP
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Thread Starter
- #16
Hate to keep adding long, often repetitive points of view to this mess but here's another one - this from a line pilot...
Jim
--------
The company is in serious trouble. Yes it is true that our costs are too high as our revenues are too low. Something will have to be done or this place will probably go under.
Still NO PLAN! Seems they want to see if we are receptive to it before they show it. What else are we / they going to do anyways?? I doubt the IAM will ever be receptive so they should get over it. Much talk about
the problem, not much talk about the solution. They seem to be very familiar with Jet Blues pay. Not so familiar with Jet Blues management style.
What I gathered is we are supposed to sort of agree to want to do this without any particulars. Why they wasted an opportunity to show us more I do not know.
Management seems to have absolutely no idea that morale is bad or why it is bad. Don Buttcovic raised a very good point to Bruce Ashby. He stated ( best of my memory) that we had negotiated 2 deals with these
guys already and they seem to have a lot of trouble honoring them. We are tired of negotiating with greivances.I found Ashby to be credible but sort of one way on communication. He speaks to us and was interesting but does he listen??? He seems to think that our morale is poor because we have had cuts and Jet Blue is good because they are growing. When issues were raised about constant "cheating" by management on the contract (like ACARS) that these issues were not mangements intent. Dept heads were doing this to meet their cost goals.
As I drove home I wondered if he would think it was okay for me to steal abit at work each day to help my home budget out??? Bet mgmnt would feel differently about that.
When asked by a check airman what we should do with ideas, problems etc to get feedback he told us to tell our Chief Pilots. He recognizes that the system isn't working but doesn't see it as a morale problem.
RJ issues. They want relief so that the big RJs can be flown elsewhere. In case we need to sell PSA or MDA aircraft to somebody else to make the lenders happy. We can't afford to lose the financing and the RJs feed if GE pulls the loan money. Of course if you were going to get a job at MDA, you might find yourself at Mesa making $15,000 as an FO. We would only get half the jobs elsewhere vs all the jobs at MDA. Not good as if we hose the furloughed guys again they will remember and we may
actually have to fly with them one day if the dump doesn't go under.
Also 90 seat RJs were mentioned on several of Ashby's slides. Some brief reference to them how our competitors will have them so we must too. I can't pin down why but I felt he meant for them to be at commuters, not mainline. Would like that clarified. Ashby was told
many times about the poor service at commuters. Dodged the issue.
Management slide about costs, now retiree health care is a problem. Costs us 130 million. Not at America West or Jet Blue. No request to cut it but there it was as a cost problem. Hopefully Wendy's will have health care after I "retire".
The great "60 planes".....
Quote from Ashby slide:
" if we can adapt we can grow. Up to 60 planes with the right cost structure"
That certainly didn't sound like the great 60 plane rumor I heard.
When asked later directly about 60 planes Mr. Ashby said " if we had a cost structure like them (Jet Blue, America West) then we could grow like them."
Getting the costs down, they want half to come from labor and half from other changes.
When asked, Ashby said that management was willing to be compensated like Jet Blue's. No commitment though.
Ben Baldanza was quite likeable. Seemed to know what he was talking about. We didn't get to have many question answered though.
BTW throughout this, only the MEC members were allowed to ask questions. 50 or 60 pilots there were not.
A lot of MEC questions seemed focused more on small issues not large. Hallway discussion with Ashby a lot of questions about why PHL sucks so bad. Why has it never been fixed. No real answer. There was a sort of slip up where he admitted that it would involve new colors (I knew that it HAD to involve a new paint job, always does here). We also reiterated the fact that we don't trust them and morale stinks. Leadership is necessary, something to believe in.
My fat fingers are tired of typing. The summary:
We are going to have to do something, and I think fairly quickly. Why management is dragging their feet with the plan? Maybe to create another crisis? Maybe Dave's dog ate it? Maybe they can't show it to us as it is so good and creative and we can't let the competition find out
anything?
BOHICA, but I didn't feel like we had much choice. They just do not grasp the idea that we don't trust them, don't think they deliver on there promises, that morale is better on the chain gang, or that maybe some one of the 26,000 employees might have an idea.
I found Ashby to be believable and a pleasant person. Same with Baldanza. Where was Waldo, I mean Dave???? If it is this important and we are so pivotal in getting this done, I found his absence unusual??
I wanted to feel inspired but didn't leave feeling that way. They continue to justify what is the status quo and why we can't change. Some of it I think is true, some isn't. Seem to want us to give without any return.
Jim
--------
The company is in serious trouble. Yes it is true that our costs are too high as our revenues are too low. Something will have to be done or this place will probably go under.
Still NO PLAN! Seems they want to see if we are receptive to it before they show it. What else are we / they going to do anyways?? I doubt the IAM will ever be receptive so they should get over it. Much talk about
the problem, not much talk about the solution. They seem to be very familiar with Jet Blues pay. Not so familiar with Jet Blues management style.
What I gathered is we are supposed to sort of agree to want to do this without any particulars. Why they wasted an opportunity to show us more I do not know.
Management seems to have absolutely no idea that morale is bad or why it is bad. Don Buttcovic raised a very good point to Bruce Ashby. He stated ( best of my memory) that we had negotiated 2 deals with these
guys already and they seem to have a lot of trouble honoring them. We are tired of negotiating with greivances.I found Ashby to be credible but sort of one way on communication. He speaks to us and was interesting but does he listen??? He seems to think that our morale is poor because we have had cuts and Jet Blue is good because they are growing. When issues were raised about constant "cheating" by management on the contract (like ACARS) that these issues were not mangements intent. Dept heads were doing this to meet their cost goals.
As I drove home I wondered if he would think it was okay for me to steal abit at work each day to help my home budget out??? Bet mgmnt would feel differently about that.
When asked by a check airman what we should do with ideas, problems etc to get feedback he told us to tell our Chief Pilots. He recognizes that the system isn't working but doesn't see it as a morale problem.
RJ issues. They want relief so that the big RJs can be flown elsewhere. In case we need to sell PSA or MDA aircraft to somebody else to make the lenders happy. We can't afford to lose the financing and the RJs feed if GE pulls the loan money. Of course if you were going to get a job at MDA, you might find yourself at Mesa making $15,000 as an FO. We would only get half the jobs elsewhere vs all the jobs at MDA. Not good as if we hose the furloughed guys again they will remember and we may
actually have to fly with them one day if the dump doesn't go under.
Also 90 seat RJs were mentioned on several of Ashby's slides. Some brief reference to them how our competitors will have them so we must too. I can't pin down why but I felt he meant for them to be at commuters, not mainline. Would like that clarified. Ashby was told
many times about the poor service at commuters. Dodged the issue.
Management slide about costs, now retiree health care is a problem. Costs us 130 million. Not at America West or Jet Blue. No request to cut it but there it was as a cost problem. Hopefully Wendy's will have health care after I "retire".
The great "60 planes".....
Quote from Ashby slide:
" if we can adapt we can grow. Up to 60 planes with the right cost structure"
That certainly didn't sound like the great 60 plane rumor I heard.
When asked later directly about 60 planes Mr. Ashby said " if we had a cost structure like them (Jet Blue, America West) then we could grow like them."
Getting the costs down, they want half to come from labor and half from other changes.
When asked, Ashby said that management was willing to be compensated like Jet Blue's. No commitment though.
Ben Baldanza was quite likeable. Seemed to know what he was talking about. We didn't get to have many question answered though.
BTW throughout this, only the MEC members were allowed to ask questions. 50 or 60 pilots there were not.
A lot of MEC questions seemed focused more on small issues not large. Hallway discussion with Ashby a lot of questions about why PHL sucks so bad. Why has it never been fixed. No real answer. There was a sort of slip up where he admitted that it would involve new colors (I knew that it HAD to involve a new paint job, always does here). We also reiterated the fact that we don't trust them and morale stinks. Leadership is necessary, something to believe in.
My fat fingers are tired of typing. The summary:
We are going to have to do something, and I think fairly quickly. Why management is dragging their feet with the plan? Maybe to create another crisis? Maybe Dave's dog ate it? Maybe they can't show it to us as it is so good and creative and we can't let the competition find out
anything?
BOHICA, but I didn't feel like we had much choice. They just do not grasp the idea that we don't trust them, don't think they deliver on there promises, that morale is better on the chain gang, or that maybe some one of the 26,000 employees might have an idea.
I found Ashby to be believable and a pleasant person. Same with Baldanza. Where was Waldo, I mean Dave???? If it is this important and we are so pivotal in getting this done, I found his absence unusual??
I wanted to feel inspired but didn't leave feeling that way. They continue to justify what is the status quo and why we can't change. Some of it I think is true, some isn't. Seem to want us to give without any return.
