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pilots and flight attendants BOTH sign a merger agreement!

Don't get me wrong - I think the merger will happen. The huge raises will go to the US pilots and FAs, which alone will wipe out most of the profits on the US side.

Finally someone says it: US air profits that everyone talks about, where would they be if they were paying AA labor rates over the last 4 years. Hell, where would they be if they were under AA's new contracted labor rates? Exactly.

If I run a business with 100mm in revenues, and 1mm in costs, I make more profit thatn a company with 500mm in revenues and 425mm in costs.

Math is your friend people.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
And as far as stapling another carrier, guess you dont know about McCaskill-Bond Law.

No, of course MB will protect everyone......worked great at US.......oh, wait a second. Do some research on arbitration, enforcement of arbitration, etc. If the law was to have any bite, they would not have left it to an arbitrator. That was a law passed to get more votes come election time. Its says if the airlines are "combined". AA could easily argue that US was not combined, but rather bought, picked for what was of value and the rest tossed to the side.

Hence, I stand by original statement: if AA does the buying, she can pretty much do what she wants. So if I was the APA, or US employees, I would not a merger, but want my company to be the agreesor and purchase the other one so ensure I HAD THE POWER. If I'm a pilots, I'd rather have a management team I'm not thrilled with than losing my left seat, 777 pay and scheduele, etc.....

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
Apparently you didnt do any research,lol.

MB wasnt a law when US and HP merged.

And there wasnt a staple job, there has to be a joint cba for the list to be effective, USAPA is the hold up.

Try again.

It will be a merger not an acquisition, do you understand the difference?
 
Thanks, 7x7.
If there is a “part” I have played on this and other aviation discussion forums, it is that I understand very well the economics of the airline industry and see past the hype that is often part of aviation discussion forums. Like it or not, I have been dead accurate in my predictions of where specific airlines would go over the past 10 years.
I am not “anti” anything or any airline but I am very pro-success – and my allegiances in the airline industry have long been to those companies that have demonstrated their ability to win in the marketplace.

Beyond that, I have long believed that AA wasted a whole lot of time in the first decade of 2000 fighting with or waiting for a change in the situation w/ labor that has cost it substantially in the marketplace.
AA’s creditors, well aware of this situation, are now looking for the best route forward including how to maximize recovery of their debts.
Especially over the past 10 years, mergers have proven to improve the finances of the airline industry and AMR’s creditors want a piece of that as well.
The US merger, quite frankly, does not deliver what either AA or US need entirely to compete – that is obvious and has been well discussed. AA-US will be at a disadvantage to other carriers with respect to the timing of the AA-US merger (if it happens) more than anything else, but also the financial condition of both carriers, the recent history of unresolved labor issues, and the lack of network “parity”.

Thus, anyone who thinks that AA-US will deliver results comparable to other carriers including employee pay and job security.
Other carriers are simply not going to lay down and allow AA-US to cut into their markets; the industry has always been highly competitive and is just as much if not more so now. The difference now is that the competition is that network and low fare carriers are not acting as one competitively and are competing against each other within the group instead of the LFC-legacy competition that has defined the industry since deregulation.

I am very well aware and respect that there are people at every carrier, including DL, that do not like how their company is being run, including DL. The cultural conflict between DL and what NW was is enormous esp. WRT labor relations. DL’s culture has always been patriarchal and that culture is not palatable to some people. Nonetheless, the majority of DL employees are at least content - and some are happy - w/ the way the company is being run and particularly with compensation increases, which have far exceeded what other airline employees have received since BK. Nevertheless, DL does things differently than other airlines including how the components of compensation packages are put together yet the totals consistently seem to come out as high as or higher than what it does at other airlines.

I am not here to defend what DL does with its employees, but I can say that the vast majority of employees do not believe there is a better alternative to what they have now.
I do, however, recognize the different opinions and encourage those who aren’t content with what they are experiencing to speak up. DL has a history of shelling out money in order to eliminate resistance so current resistance could translate into increased pay, even if some of the cultural issues don’t change.

This discussion is about AA-US and the only real correlation to what DL does and what AA-US does is that DL has a closed, finished merger and has employee relations on a large scale that has allowed the company to pursue its strategic purposes.

AA and US will only succeed if they can pull off essentially a flawless merger in just about every respect and move immediately to gain financial benefits from the merger and then to gain far greater financial benefits than anyone including AA or US has said up to this point.
 
Apparently you didnt do any research,lol.

MB wasnt a law when US and HP merged.

And there wasnt a staple job, there has to be a joint cba for the list to be effective, USAPA is the hold up.

Try again.

It will be a merger not an acquisition, do you understand the difference?

Do you read? Or is that beyond you. Read my original post again that you commented on without reading. I said I thought AA would come out independent, and then purchase an airline, and that would allow them to staple, hence it would not be a merger, it would be an aquisition........ah, the joys of reading something. Yes, I accept your apology.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
MB prevents that from happening, maybe you should read the law, it even protects non-union workers.

Do the research.
 
AA and US will only succeed if they can pull off essentially a flawless merger in just about every respect and move immediately to gain financial benefits from the merger and then to gain far greater financial benefits than anyone including AA or US has said up to this point.

Has that ever happened before with any airline or better yet with USAir in the past?
 
I don't know that ANYONE has pulled off a flawless merger... but maybe that highlights how high the hill is that AA-US will have to climb in order to succeed.
 
777 the mb was set up after what aa did to the twa folks aa knew from the start when they accept twa they knew what they wanted to do to eliminate a competitor and screw the people from their jobs straight to the streets by way of stapling them to the bottom the allegheny mohawk should have helped but aa found a hole and filled it to their needs then the mb came into affect largely thanks to the twa folks who stood up to aa it cannot happen again
if there is to be a merger its my own belief that the seniority by doh
 
AA didnt find a loophole, the forced all the unions at TWA to give up their Labor Protective Provisions otherwise they wouldnt buy TWA and they would have gone chapter 7.
 
MB prevents that from happening, maybe you should read the law, it even protects non-union workers.

Do the research.
Where does it say there will be no staple? That's right, it doesn't. It can still happen. If, for whatever reason the parties decide to do it, no one will stop them. Also, who's to say that there isn't an arbitrator out there who won't decide on a staple? No one knows for sure. If anyone says that they do, they're just guessing. MCB, just guarantees a second avenue to follow if one party doesn't like the seniority methodology. That is all.
 
http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf

-Outcry and organizing by TWA flight attendants, as well as by AFA and other flight attendant unions disturbed by the precedent set in the American-TWA deal, generated the McCaskill-Bond seniority protection law as part of the 2007 Omnibus Bill. The law returned section 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk LPPs to the books. McCaskill-Bond demands that the unions of each merging work group negotiate a fair and equitable seniority list integration. If they cannot agree on a list, they must submit the issue to a neutral arbitrator. Though the law is not nearly as broad as pre-1985 LPPs, it prevents unions or airlines from “stapling” the seniority list of one carrier to another

http://www.justice4twa.com/pdf/Protecting%20Labor%20During%20Airline%20Mergers.pdf
 
Why not cite the part of the law that says no stapling? Sounds like a stapling can occur if both sides find it fair and equitable...
 
AA didnt find a loophole, the forced all the unions at TWA to give up their Labor Protective Provisions otherwise they wouldnt buy TWA and they would have gone chapter 7.

Put blame where it belongs.

Carty and Compton. The two buffoons who concocted the deal and screwed over the employees (mostly TWA) and the airlines financial sheet. How long did they last after the ink dried? I got mine.
 
Why not cite the part of the law that says no stapling? Sounds like a stapling can occur if both sides find it fair and equitable...

If you are so interested, you find it, and show me one union that would agree to a staple job as fair and equitable?

None, thats why the Frontier/Southwest merger didnt happen.
 
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