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pilots and flight attendants BOTH sign a merger agreement!

If stapling were to occur it would be the AA employees getting stapled. Period end of discussion. AA is in BK, US isn't. AA will be the company being acquired by US. Or if the rumors are true and there is a hostile takeover it will be US doing the takeover.

But fortunately for the AA employees the unions at US will never go along with stapling them due to union bylaws and past practice, plus that would not be any way to win friends and influence people. Something that was lost on the AA corporate culture in past buyouts and aquisitions to the detriment of everyone at AA.
 
Stapling is not going to happen, why do you think MB was enacted?
 
Where does it say there will be no staple? That's right, it doesn't. It can still happen. If, for whatever reason the parties decide to do it, no one will stop them. Also, who's to say that there isn't an arbitrator out there who won't decide on a staple? No one knows for sure. If anyone says that they do, they're just guessing. MCB, just guarantees a second avenue to follow if one party doesn't like the seniority methodology. That is all.

Bingo.

I have extensive experience with arbitrators, arbitrators decisions, and the law. So trust me, to anyone thinks I'm reading the law wrong, go to law school, and learn how to truly read a statue and understand what it DOES and DOES NOT say.

It was meant to garner votes, not help unions....

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
If stapling were to occur it would be the AA employees getting stapled. Period end of discussion. AA is in BK, US isn't. AA will be the company being acquired by US. Or if the rumors are true and there is a hostile takeover it will be US doing the takeover.

But fortunately for the AA employees the unions at US will never go along with stapling them due to union bylaws and past practice, plus that would not be any way to win friends and influence people. Something that was lost on the AA corporate culture in past buyouts and aquisitions to the detriment of everyone at AA.

What happens when in two weeks AMR and UCC announce they have chosen to pass on a merger at this time. Then a few weeks later the rumors start that AA is getting financing, then Horton and company make a big offer for US upon their exit from bankruptcy sometime this summer, with a big payout for US management so they walk without a fight.

Then suddenly, US employees are part of the prey, not the predator......and everything changes. Don't think AA management has not made that pitch to UCC.....don't assume cause you are not reading about it that it has not been discussed or is being planned.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
Going to law school doesnt make you an expert on the law, many Congressmen and Senators arent lawyers and yet they write the laws.

I have been in many arbitration cases and even won a nice $15 Million against US, so arbitration in internal union matters and CBAs arent the same as in other cases.

Your not an expert on labor relations and MB prevents a staple job.

If you dont believe it, call McCaskill or Bond's office and find out.
 
Wrong again. Just because you say so, doesn't make it happen. You are just passing on your opinion as fact. Problem is, once again, there is nothing in MCB that prohibits a staple. There might be some weird situation where that would be warranted out there. I personally feel like we saw one case already. WN/F9. The F9 pilots, in my opinion, made a HUGE mistake. Their decision, but one I'm sure might have a different outcome if voted on today. By you saying it will never and can not happen are totally false, you know it. However unlikely for it to happen, it CAN happen. For some reason, you and johnny kat continue to spread false information. Kind of hypocritical for all the complaining you do on here about Josh spreading falsehoods!
 
Depends on what they mean by "staple job." Granted, the forced staple of very senior people will likely never happen again, but as I've pointed out before, a DOH SLI could be practically identical to a staple - say if AA purchased VX: nearly every crewmember at VX was hired in the last five or six years, and AA has hired only a few in that time. If the VX employees were granted DOH, that would be functionally equivalent to a staple. In fact, they would probably argue strenuously against DOH, just like the US West pilots did, as they would probably want to avoid being stapled.
 
I don't know that ANYONE has pulled off a flawless merger... but maybe that highlights how high the hill is that AA-US will have to climb in order to succeed.

Was there ever before a naysayer that said everything had to be flawless, and it turned out after the fact to be a bit of drama? Anyone, ever?
 
As others have noted, MB provides for arbitration if an agreement can't be worked out. There are then something like 12 or 13 methods of integration that the arbitrator can then choose from that all meet the "fair and equitable" standard, according to the law. Depending on which end of the integration you are on, some of them can be anything but fair and equitable.
 
Was there ever before a naysayer that said everything had to be flawless, and it turned out after the fact to be a bit of drama? Anyone, ever?
I'm not sure what your point is but mine is that the financial expectations that so many have from an AA-US merger are so much larger than the combined company can deliver that it will truly take a flawless execution on AA-US' part and missteps by every competitor in order for AA to generate the revenues necessary to provide the banks and investors as well as the employees the benefits they are all expecting from the merger.

You tell me how likely it is for AA and US individually or collectively to achieve that kind of success.

Returning to this question from several days ago:

More importantly, how do you or anyone think that alot of the people who are represented by the 2 or 3 unions for each of the major workgroups will be happy w/ the results of a combination?

Happiness is an intangible and entirely subjective experience that is not a factor considered when two airlines merge. Did Delta poll each NW and Delta employee to see if they were "happy"?

My point was specifically about satisfaction w/ the combination of the workforce which is even more difficult in a 3 way combination.... 2 is bad enough.
But since you threw in DL and NW, yes, DL does do employee surveys and has for years. They do not interview every employee but then pollsters only interviewed several thousand people at a time in order to be able to successfully predict the outcome of the most recent election in which 10s of millions of people voted.

The employment process, and specifically, the representation process is a democratic process and companies are capable of doing targeted research such that they can meet the expectations of the majority. AA, DL, and UA have all been able to get pilot contracts passed even though there have been a number of dissonant opinions regarding those contracts on many internet chat forums. All of those companies are moving forward w/ their strategic plans because those companies were able to identify the minimum requirements they had to meet to obtain the approval from the majority.
IN the most recent presidential elections in the US, more than 45% of the people did not choose the winner, some of them strongly so (as we have seen on this forum), and yet the process has moved on regardless.

Tell me which process is more significant to the lives of employees on the forum: what happened in national presidential elections or the labor-mgmt/representation process.
 
Going to law school doesnt make you an expert on the law, many Congressmen and Senators arent lawyers and yet they write the laws.

I have been in many arbitration cases and even won a nice $15 Million against US, so arbitration in internal union matters and CBAs arent the same as in other cases.

Your not an expert on labor relations and MB prevents a staple job.

If you dont believe it, call McCaskill or Bond's office and find out.

While I appreciate your opinion, you simply can't even realize how wrong you are in your approach because you didn't attend law school or practice. Attending law school and practicing does not make an expert in law, you are 100% correct, but we learn that if it does not say it IN BLACK AND WHITE LETTERS, then one cannot depend on it. No, attending law school doesn't make anyone smarter or better, but makes one more equipped to understand how a law may or may not be read and the pitfalls of such a law or contract. Just as training to become an airline mechanic doesn't make you smarter or better, just makes you more equipped to deal with issues involving mechanical issues on an aircraft.

When left up to interpretation, one must understand that not all outcomes can be forseen or anticipated. It is why legal contracts are so wordy, as to cover any and all situations. Its the same reason why "common law" is so heavily studied by litigation and transactional attorneys alike, because a "pattern" of decisions (called precedent) can give one a better understanding of what may happen. Its why we have a court system to help us interpret the law, fill in the blanks the legislature may have inadvertently left and in extreme cases to rule when the legislature has overstepped its boundaries.

Unfortauntely, what exists as decisions under MB is basically non-existence in legal terms. It is why so many companies choose Delaware to use as thair place of incorporation, not just because of teaxes, but cause of their EXTENSIVE corporate law common law.......so many case, such a well defined pattern for so many circumstances. Makes doing business earlier.

So with all do respect, this has nothing to do with labor law, and everything to do with understanding how the law and contracts work. Congrats on your arbitration win, but that is one for you, I got that many done before I left law school. I would never correct a mechanic on how to fix an airplane or a pilot on how to fly, so perhaps this is one you should just take a little direction from people who trained for this.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
 
Lets stop and back up to pre BK. Why did AA file? Really why did AA file for BK?

Contract negotiations were dragging on.
AA placed the worlds largest aircraft order in the history of commercial aviation.
AA has all the financing in place for this order.
AA had over $4 billion in cash at the time of filing.
Executives were receiving bonuses.
No other airline was knocking on AA's door for a merger.

The only reason was for AA to get the contracts in place that they wanted.
It worked. With the help of the BK filing AA succeeded.
AA achieved in getting the outsourcing of aircraft maintenance, fleet service, cargo and passenger service.
There never was a merger plan from the beginning.
USAir has been knocking on every airlines door that went into BK.
AA achieved their goals in BK that they could not do outside of BK.
New aircraft are coming and agreements in place.
Mission accomplished as far as I see it.
Now comes the next step. When does AA exit BK and move on.
AA spent tons of money and achieved their goals.
They are not about to let the unions tell them that they want a merger with a dysfunctional airline only to create more problems down the road.
AA has its issues but the BK filing settled most of them. Now we have to live by those decisions. A merger will lead us to another path of the unknown.
Do we really want that?
 
You can say what you want about lawyers, if there werent in the room when the CBAs were negotiated they have no idea on the intent of the language.

I have seen US's lawyers in action arbitration and they had no idea of the intent of the language and how it was applied, especially in the Airbus Arbitration the company and its lawyers were 100% certain they would win, and they lost soundly.

Their case was presented and prepared by lawyers, our case was done by the union reps and checked by lawyers, hmm, who won?

The union reps who negotiated and enforced the language, not a suit and tie guy with no experience.
 
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