Funny thing... I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah... blah... blah.firstamendment said:
Please Open Your Books To Chapter 7,class
- Thread starter flyin2low
- Start date
First,
That was a great post! With people like you working at US Airways I think this place actually has a chance. Please stay vocal about these issues. There are a lot of people that share your opinion but are afraid to speak up.
That was a great post! With people like you working at US Airways I think this place actually has a chance. Please stay vocal about these issues. There are a lot of people that share your opinion but are afraid to speak up.
I totally agree with FirstAmendment, some people need to pull their head out of the sand. As a "furloughed" US employee it makes me sad to see this tailspin getting faster, but the attitudes of some employees do nothing to help.
I did want to add that with everything in the news lately about US, our company made some major changes. I am a manager in the corporate travel office and we were advised today to no longer book on US Airways for anything. That is sad for US because our company last year spent over $800K on US flights. I wonder how many other companys are now doing the same thing?
I did want to add that with everything in the news lately about US, our company made some major changes. I am a manager in the corporate travel office and we were advised today to no longer book on US Airways for anything. That is sad for US because our company last year spent over $800K on US flights. I wonder how many other companys are now doing the same thing?
luv2fly
Veteran
FM2436 said:
I suppose you are going to tell me the employees will decide USairways future. Funny, they have been told that time and time again only to end up right back in endless threats of liquidation or BK.
Are you willing to assure the employees that this third round of cuts will preserve the "huge majority of jobs"? You have your vote, and others have theirs. If others feel the demands are too great then so be it.
700UW said:
As an IAM'er , I never recall ever being asked what my thoughts on the subject are? , but since I have the floor at the moment , here tis.
I would have no problems working with the company to a reasonable degree...if it were not for the past actions leveled at us all , after we did give. The examples of the Airbus farmout , the F/A's ordeal....and certainly how the ALPA pension was snaked away from them after gaining company praise for being leaders in the 1st two rounds of concessions. Save the praise if you are out gut me please.
Everytime the employee's have given...U has found a left-handed manner to take more...or take grevious actions towards those whom are doing the giving. Yet on the other hand we continue to reward failed leadership with heaping sums of money while employed and certainly upon their departure. Seigel and Cohen being the latest fail and profit players of late.
Just another observation.....The Star Alliance emblems on the Aircraft. We have spent an absolute fortune in time and materials on these nifty little logos..but we affix them to planes that the paint is falling off of.
U's biggest problem is spending top dollar on second rate everything. The paint on the majority of the Boeings is coming off in sheets....but we take the time and money to honor a stupid rule that requires a Star Alliance emblems....and a week or even less later the emblem and the paint is scattered all over the eastern seaboard. Please tell me how we have gotten any value out of this?...and look at what it has cost us.
Next....and it's redundant , rewarding upper management with financial gains...when everyone else is either being furloughed or ask to work to 35% less on average. This is not how to gain someones loyalty or alter their way of viewing things.
Lastly....Ole Doc Bronner shooting from the hip and warning the flying public and the employee's of our possible liquidation. Nice work Doc...even if we do avoid Chapters 11 or 7..you have all but insured a booking slump for the later part of the 3rd...and certainly the slower 4th quarter....and they have the nerve to ask us to subsidize thier stupidity and complete lack of vision in both the short and long term.
Say for a moment that everything works out?. The company gets just enough to keep us out of BK....and the IRS allows them to stretch out the penson funding payments....and the ATSB loan payment sneaks in under the radar . How long will it be until Concessions Round 4 or even 5 becomes an absolute do or die must?
The last comment being a direct reflection of continued poor leadership as we have known for years...and still can't seem to correct.
You all seem to have lost sight, the employees given $2.4 Billion all ready, 20,000 less jobs and this management still wants more and they have proven they do not know how to run an airline.
Put all the rhetoric aside and look at the facts.
Not one single airline in history has been saved by employee concessions alone, it takes leadership, growth, vision and a clear plan on how to accomplish that.
You don't declare war on your employees and make them the enemy.
If the company truly has $700 million in non-labor cost savings, why has it not been implimented?
Look at their inability to run this place and their lack of respect for its employees and their CBAs.
Put all the rhetoric aside and look at the facts.
Not one single airline in history has been saved by employee concessions alone, it takes leadership, growth, vision and a clear plan on how to accomplish that.
You don't declare war on your employees and make them the enemy.
If the company truly has $700 million in non-labor cost savings, why has it not been implimented?
Look at their inability to run this place and their lack of respect for its employees and their CBAs.
It might be time to start referring to Dr. Kerry-Bronner, since Bronner seems to be publicly flip-flopping on the "I will (or will not) invest further in US Airways."
The other day it was, I won't, and nobody else will... "I'll take my lesson and go home."
Now its, "Maybe if the unions give in"
The problem for the union is this: if you give in to Round 3, you had better start thinking about Round 4 and 5.
The other day it was, I won't, and nobody else will... "I'll take my lesson and go home."
Now its, "Maybe if the unions give in"
The problem for the union is this: if you give in to Round 3, you had better start thinking about Round 4 and 5.
funguy2 said:
The funny thing about having multiple rounds is this...
Company asks for $x in concessions that it needs to survive. Unions give 25% of $x. Company still needs 75% of $x reduction to survive.
The company is not in a position to ask for an outrageous concession amount that would give an exorbanent profit. No...they ask for what they need to continue operations and the unions don't give nearly that much. So...even though it is "multiple rounds" of concessions, the amount is never what it needs to be.
I am glad, though, to finally see so many coming out to support the other, more prevalent, group that is interested in U's survival rather than jaded by everything that occurs in this world. Thanks, FirstAmendment, PSA, and anyone I have left out. And thanks, Bradley71 for putting this issue in perspective. Seems so many have clouded perceptions of reality.
funguy2 said:
Or Bush-Bronner..."There is proof that Iraq was a part of 911 and a link between Osama Bin Laden and Iraq" to "there is no proof that Irag was involved with 911".
robbedagain
Veteran
skeezer said:
actually i have taken a huge hit at my city it went from mainline to mainline express and the top pay went from 23 down to 13 an hr what more of cut could they do? is it true what DELETED says that they could have a prepackaged ch11? i normally dont take thing personally bu ti also have applied at a kmart just to help soften the cushion if usair does fail
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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Ch. 12,
"Company asks for $x in concessions that it needs to survive. Unions give 25% of $x. Company still needs 75% of $x reduction to survive."
Now we've found something that we really can disagree about. Have you already forgotten that Siegel increased the "savings" needed to be competitive while we were in BK1? And that the unions stepped up to the plate and gave more? That's where round 2 of ALPA concessions came in. Round 3 was the pension. All in BK1 and all because Siegel said more was needed.
Jim
"Company asks for $x in concessions that it needs to survive. Unions give 25% of $x. Company still needs 75% of $x reduction to survive."
Now we've found something that we really can disagree about. Have you already forgotten that Siegel increased the "savings" needed to be competitive while we were in BK1? And that the unions stepped up to the plate and gave more? That's where round 2 of ALPA concessions came in. Round 3 was the pension. All in BK1 and all because Siegel said more was needed.
Jim
tug_slug said:Funny thing... I see your lips moving but all I hear is blah... blah... blah.
[post="170522"][/post]
Typical response when there is no arguement. You are proof to what I wrote about people here being juvenile. Thank you, slug, for proving me right.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
SoldWholeSale said:Can anyone blame Dr. Bronner? Who in the world, after any dealing at all with our labor unions, wading around in the muck wouldn't want to scuttle the ship? Its not like U so completely out performs the rest of the industry that we are worth all the extra grief....... We have an old fleet, old/senior workers, our union roots are in Pittsburgh (you know, the city whose union mentality ran steel out of the US
PS. I am already furloughed, so have no interest in saving my own hideI used to love working at U though, and would like to see it return to healthy carrier status one day, sort of the "home team" if you will.
Flame away, shoot until the horse under you stumbles and falls because thats all the further your going.....
[post="170458"][/post]
You can't be serious can you?
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
Bronner is an idiot. I wouldn't even buy a discount ticket on UAIR for travel anytime soon. Yes, he really torpedoed this place now. If I were a major creditor, rather than insist on chapter 7, I'd first insist on Bronner's removal from the BOD. Then UAIR MIGHT have a slight chance of survival, something they SURELY don't have now! Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on anymore my friends. UAIR is now dead. Stick a fork in 'em.
EyeInTheSky said:
See, that's funny, I thought that perspective was spot on. Do you really think that dealing with these issues is fun? That executives are just lining up to spend time with you guys and your issues and all the baggage from years past? and THEN you expect them to do it, lose money AND lose their reputations as career businessmen? Hey, hate the game all you want, but it's silly to expect players to just roll over. er, why? Why would they come to U and say, please take this money that we could be spending on innumerable other BETTER investment opportunities? Why? I think that Bronner has shown much more compassion than U employees would have gotten from TPG.
The only people with an indesputible interest in keeping U going as an airline entity in a recognizable form may only be the employees. Everyone else is just endulging you. Do you enjoy being patronized?
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