Pre-Chapter 11

[Tex-Mech]

Upon the end of the 30 day cooling off period, NW imposed new terms on mechanic and related, removing ancillary duties from the CBA.

The Fleet service CBA all ready contained the language for ancillary duties, as Fleet did that work at more stations than mechanic and related.

So if Fleet refused to do the work in their CBA, that would be insubordination.

And if fleet refused the work that became theirs as a result of imposed terms on the mechanics, you honestly believe that you couldn't win those insubordination arbitrations? Or was it that this was a preplanned deal that NW and the IAM had in place to scab out their membership for the greater good of breaking AMFA and lowering the expectations of mechanics for years to come and helping their corporate partners?

 

[TWU informer]

The many justifications of IAM scabs would be funny to read, if they were not instead sickening.

IAM-700UW = SCABS-SCAB DEFENDER

 

[700UW]

First of all I am not a scab, nor am I defending scabs.

I walked a picket line and ran a strike in 1992, so I would never scab nor defend them.

Did you go to work when the APFA was on strike?

Then if you did by your definition your a scab.

The language was in the IAM FSA CBA, if they refused the work it would be insubordination, is that hard to understand?

And please explain how ancillary duties broke AMFA?

The language in the Fleet CBA, states it was fleet work where not in conflict with AMFA's CBA, when the language was removed from the AMFA CBA, it became fleet work, and insubordination is a terminating offense, so who is gonna pay the workers when they are out of work up to three years as that is how long arbitration can take.

 

[Vortilon]

And thats is the membership's prerogative, he just blames Bob Owens, Bob is one man with one vote.

AA would have increased their ask to make up for the additional costs.

He keeps crying over what the majority of his coworkers wanted.

Its enough all ready, its time to stick together, they have no clue what they are in store for, I lived it and was totally involved with it.

It wont be pretty.

No offense, but this is what we have been doing - it's not working. When you try to use one group of employees to prop up another, guess which group gets fleeced. Been there done that.

In regard to your outsourcing perspective, yeah they can fly some of the aircraft to some of these third world Sh@tholes to get overhauled. They will never get the quality they would have had, if they kept it in house - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's only a matter of time before one of these foreign terrorist err maintenance workers places an explosive charge along with the means to detonate in one of these aircraft - when the time is right.

 

[767 mechanic]

Upon the end of the 30 day cooling off period, NW imposed new terms on mechanic and related, removing ancillary duties from the CBA.

The Fleet service CBA all ready contained the language for ancillary duties, as Fleet did that work at more stations than mechanic and related.

So if Fleet refused to do the work in their CBA, that would be insubordination.

Explain to me how receipt and dispatch, air starts and deicing broke AMFA and caused a successful elimination of AMFA at NW?

That is funny when nw decided to outsource all of the deicing the iam was crying saying it was always there work. Which was a lie. I remember reading an article on this and nw was saying that it was not there work. So even nw was calling the iam scabs. If I remember correctly it was Julie Showers. If it was there work all along then the iam would have been able to keep it. So were they doing scab work or were they just unable to keep there work?

 

[Tex-Mech]

First of all I am not a scab, nor am I defending scabs.

I walked a picket line and ran a strike in 1992, so I would never scab nor defend them.

Did you go to work when the APFA was on strike?

Then if you did by your definition your a scab.

The language was in the IAM FSA CBA, if they refused the work it would be insubordination, is that hard to understand?

And please explain how ancillary duties broke AMFA?

The language in the Fleet CBA, states it was fleet work where not in conflict with AMFA's CBA, when the language was removed from the AMFA CBA, it became fleet work, and insubordination is a terminating offense, so who is gonna pay the workers when they are out of work up to three years as that is how long arbitration can take.

Not saying you were a scab, and I was not hired on yet when the APFA struck. The ancillary duties did not break the strike, but I would say that it was one of many parts that did. As far as the language is concerned, are you really trying to say that this language wasn't written in a deliberate way to seize the mechanics work at first opportunity, even if the work involved was struck work? And would it really take the IAM 3 years to arbitrate a case that involved all fleet workers refusing to take over the mechanics work while that work is under dispute due to the strike. Lastly, why does it take you guys 3 years to arbitrate a termination case? Most cases here are heard and decided within a year.

 

[700UW]

Because US stalls and log jams all the cases, it has an average of two years.

The language was in the Fleet CBA way before AMFA ever came on the property.

Fleet did ancillary duties at more stations than AMFA ever did, before the strike.

The language was removed from the imposed CBA, thereby placing it on Fleet's scope.

 

[767 mechanic]

Because US stalls and log jams all the cases, it has an average of two years.

The language was in the Fleet CBA way before AMFA ever came on the property.

Fleet did ancillary duties at more stations than AMFA ever did, before the strike.

The language was removed from the imposed CBA, thereby placing it on Fleet's scope.

The NMB determined that the work was the AMFAs. So the iam contract did not mention specific stations or stations that were occupied by the iam and not the AMFA. Sounds like weak language to me. It might have been in your contract,but I am positive that the iam didn't protest very hard to the judge saying that this was another unions work,but when nw deciced to outsource the work they cried bloody murder. How does it feel to carry the water for the man. If doing flight attendant work was installed in the iam contract. Would the iam do that work also? I would bet my last dollar that the iam would do any work to increase there dues as long as it was an independant unions work previously and not an afl-cio union.

 

[TWU informer]

Did the IAM do anything to discipline the likes of Jerry Sowell and the other comfirmed/known SCABS that crossed the picket line at NWA and went to work?

If not, then the IAM is a SCAB Union. And 700UW is a SCAB sympathizer.

Jerry Sowell was the TWU Local 514 anti-AMFA spokesman, the TWU paid for his trip to Tulsa to speak against AMFA. Then the SCAB crossed the picket line.
What exactly did the IAM do to those SCABS?

 

[Kev3188]

You are correct about the amount lined up to take jobs at NW. Your scab union was lined up also. After the strike started how many iam represented employees were doing the deicing at the stations that the AMFA mechanics were doing, prior to the strike? Don't avoid the question and don't tap dance around it. It is a simple question just answer it. I will keep asking the question until you answer it truthfully.

Deicing hadn't been AMT work at NW for many years before the strike, even in stations that had AMT's.

He will give the same answer to this one. Why was an IAM represented employee performing the same job functions that I did only hours after I went on strike? That is the definition of a scab.The only thing worse than that is having the union president and his minions encouraging it.Wait, there is another thing that makes it even worse...having a IAM apologist/leader justifying it on this board while whistling past the graveyard.Pathetic.

This is where it gets interesting, and touches on "weak language" that 767 notes below. In Tech's case, he's absolutely correct. However, in other stations, some had cleaners and AMTs. Some only AMTs. And of course, there were just under 100 that had no AMFA people at all. For those stations, it was business as usual.

And if fleet refused the work that became theirs as a result of imposed terms on the mechanics, you honestly believe that you couldn't win those insubordination arbitrations? Or was it that this was a preplanned deal that NW and the IAM had in place to scab out their membership for the greater good of breaking AMFA and lowering the expectations of mechanics for years to come and helping their corporate partners?

DL143 pres. Bobby DePace set back labor 20 years with his actions. We all received a letter that took the company's line that the strike was not "legal," and therefore, they (the IAM) would not enforce the language protecting employees from honoring the line. Many did anyway. I was one, and it was an easy decision. I can also tell you that once the district found out, I got more sh*t from them than I did from the company.

That is funny when nw decided to outsource all of the deicing the iam was crying saying it was always there work. Which was a lie. I remember reading an article on this and nw was saying that it was not there work. So even nw was calling the iam scabs. If I remember correctly it was Julie Showers. If it was there work all along then the iam would have been able to keep it. So were they doing scab work or were they just unable to keep there work?

Most stations still do deicing. I can only think of a couple that don't, and AFAIK, that's occurred now that we're non-union.

The NMB determined that the work was the AMFAs. So the iam contract did not mention specific stations or stations that were occupied by the iam and not the AMFA. Sounds like weak language to me. It might have been in your contract,but I am positive that the iam didn't protest very hard to the judge saying that this was another unions work,but when nw deciced to outsource the work they cried bloody murder. How does it feel to carry the water for the man. If doing flight attendant work was installed in the iam contract. Would the iam do that work also? I would bet my last dollar that the iam would do any work to increase there dues as long as it was an independant unions work previously and not an afl-cio union.

The IAM CBA in '05 did not list each station (the one signed in BK does), but scope language covered that, since all work had to be performed by IAM members. AMFA's listed all ~24 cities, and in those cases, their language "trumped" (my term) ours. IOW, if there were AMT's on the property, they did pushes, airstarts, and so on.

Did the IAM do anything to discipline the likes of Jerry Sowell and the other comfirmed/known SCABS that crossed the picket line at NWA and went to work?If not, then the IAM is a SCAB Union. And 700UW is a SCAB sympathizer.Jerry Sowell was the TWU Local 514 anti-AMFA spokesman, the TWU paid for his trip to Tulsa to speak against AMFA. Then the SCAB crossed the picket line.What exactly did the IAM do to those SCABS?

Sowells wasn't an IAM member by that point- nor were any of the others that slithered over the line- so I'm not sure what they could've done?

 

[700UW]

TWU, dont you have more whining and crying to do over the failed TA?

I am not in anyone a scab sympathizer, I was on the trial committee at US after our strike and we tried and fined the scabs.

Sorry if you dont like the facts that happened at NW.

You cant find a more stronger union man than myself.

And did you go to work when the APFA was on strike?

And thanks Kev for clarifying!

 

[Buck]

If I recall correctly, AMFA has been the only mechanics union that has put forth any effort to change the status quo of the AFL-CIO dues collection machine. The effort made by AMFA was challenged by the TWU, as not being a member of the AFL-CIO.

Straying from the gene pool in an effort to better the mechanics profession and ensuring that the other work groups no longer used them as a tool.

Every species needs to evolve, even the TWU. (AFL-CIO).

 

[700UW]

And AMFA wasnt and still isnt a "mechanics" only union, by law, the class and craft also includes cleaners/utility, so there are non-mechanics in AMFA.

 

[Buck]

And AMFA wasnt and still isnt a "mechanics" only union, by law, the class and craft also includes cleaners/utility, so there are non-mechanics in AMFA.

As it is with the TWU. That is a NMB decision, not AMFA 's. Who said anything about Utility mechanics not being mechanics?

In the AA last T/A , building cleaners were to be made Utility Mechanics. Quite an upgrade, while others in Title I were to be where they fell.

In the term sheet proposal by the company, both aircraft cleaners and parts washers will be combined into one group under a non stated.Title. group, possibly outside of the mechanic class and crafts.

 

[700UW]

At US Utlity are cleaners. That is how I meant it.