presenting “new [CBA] proposals”

[Hopeful]

Well Buck for every "Hopeful" thats here on the line there are probably two or three "well we aint gonna price ourselves out of a job and I aint gonna let you get more than we get so if things are so bad you should move here" guys there in the base. I've met a few of them over the years from your engine shop. I've also met many reasonable guys as well who understand its not realistic to pay everyone in every location exactly the same because it does not address the economic realities of the cost of living.

In the end, if we dont find common ground and stick together, we destroy each other.

Is that the way you want to go? Will you allow a guy who is under an alias, so in reality he could even be a member of management, change what you think is right?

Please Bob,,,you know damn well that whatever OH wanted OH got.....In the end it was about 24/7 and weekends off...Spare me!

 

[frontline]

We had a chance at "I've got mine, Brother"

Now we are relegated to

"I want mine, brother"

Who are you willing to screw to get yours? And how bad are you willing to screw them?

You got it. We went from a position of negotiating with some strength to cap in hand. Please sir, may I have some more?

 

[Boomer]

You got it. We went from a position of negotiating with some strength to cap in hand. Please sir, may I have some more?

I think the record proves that AMR filed for BK because they knew that they were $10,000,000,000.00 underfunded in their pension plan obligations and there was "Little" TWU opportunity to make up the deficiency.

We are in Sect. 1113 "negotiations" because that is where AMR wanted to be at this point in time.

Voting for further concession may have extended the time for filing; IMHO, it would not have prevented it.

 

[swamt]

Thanks Bob. One more question about OH. Is AA looking at getting rid of the maint. lines that AA performs for the other airlines? I believe they are performed at the Tulsa location.
To give you all a little senerio on the wages at Tulsa; I was offered a job at AA, in Tulsa, back in 1995 to be a mechanics helper in one of the backshops, and they offered me 9 and some change per hour. Are you guys telling me they are still trying to hire "off the street" for 9 bucks an hour still? You have got to be kidding me? If this is the case, I see a huge hit coming to the Tulsa guys thru this BK filing. In Tulsa, they may very well be able to hire off the street for this price range, but if that is still true now days, how pathetic...

 

[Chuck Schalk]

.

Voting for further concession may have extended the time for filing; IMHO, it would not have prevented it.

True statement, While I was at the 1st bankruptcy meeting ( outside the room) I had the opportunity to speak to several of the bankruptcy law firms while waiting around. They all said that they knew AA was going to use the bankruptcy card but they just didn't know when. So it was no surprise to anyone that this was a planned tactical maneuver. Previous concessions would not have spared the bankruptcy card. all that would have done is given the company 2 bites at the apple.

 

[Buck]

Sorry if i hit a nerve....My seniority predates that wonderful 1983 industry CHANGING contract which spearheaded the decline of the mechanic profession.
Now, you need to go back and read many of my posts NEVER advocating OH be spun off. But also keep in mind I have been here long enough to know that TULSA has carried many a contract. I have been repeatedly told by fellow union brothers in TULSA, if you don't like it, "MOVE TO TULSA."
As of the last rejected TA, the focus was whether or not TULE would retain weekends off....

SHOW ME ONE POST WHERE I ADVOCATED SEPARATING OH FROM LINE....

You may have been in support of GEO pay, but your past local presidents using the power of the roll call vote were NEVER in favor of GEO pay.
You guys had all the clout because of your sheer numbers...What TULSA wanted, TULSA got...

Well guess what? NOW WE"RE ALL GOING TO GET IT AND GET IT GOOD...


Getting back to the post that upset you so much.....You can be damn sure that GLESS at the bequest of Little and Co....will offer ALL OUR HEADS to preserve union dues...

Are you going to deny that TULSA has never carried almost every contract?

And you are more than welcome to bring your 1984 seniority to NY.....Bring your family and be prepared to pay $12000 in property taxes, thousands in car insurance and thats for clunkers....Dont forget state tax.. But you can save thousands of dollars in taxes if you live inside NYC..But since the public school system is pretty bad, be prepared to spend thousands more for private school if your kids are still school age...Be prepared to wake up at 7 am twice a week so you can move your cars off the street so the street cleaners can come down the block....Dont forget home heating and electrical bills that are outragious..I can go on and on.....

Pleae, spare me the poor TULSA syndrome...The TWU and TULSA gave a rats ass for decades about the high cost of living areas like NY.....You guys had the sheer numbers to get whatever you want...

Now that OH's ass is on the line, you're looking for sympathy...

We are all screwed, not just you.

Bob: Of course I do not want to separate, you are correct and it is I who struck a nerve.


So you are one of the great A-scale who via the B-scale drove wages down. As for Tulsa carrying the contracts, of course. they are the majority voting block. They do not sound like your union brothers, it would appear that you have some issues with them as a group. Tell the majority to work weekends? See how far you get. All I hear from many on Line mechanics on this board is whining about one thing or another.
So you blame Tulsa and then you turn around and blame the International via Gless, which is it? Yes I will deny Tulsa carried any contract, the International carries the contract. Please spare me the NY syndrome, if you don't like it move to Tulsa with your superior seniority, of course you may not have a choice, right. Are you on Agency Fee? You could only pay part of your dues, then you would have some left over for your bills.

What do you mean we are all screwed, I am satisfied with what I have, because there is really nothing I can do about it. I do not want or need your sympathy and will not ask for it. It would seem that you are the one looking in that direction?

Advocating separation? That is exactly what your post does.

 

[Hopeful]

Bob: Of course I do not want to separate, you are correct and it is I who struck a nerve.


So you are one of the great A-scale who via the B-scale drove wages down. As for Tulsa carrying the contracts, of course. they are the majority voting block. They do not sound like your union brothers, it would appear that you have some issues with them as a group. Tell the majority to work weekends? See how far you get. All I hear from many on Line mechanics on this board is whining about one thing or another.
So you blame Tulsa and then you turn around and blame the International via Gless, which is it? Yes I will deny Tulsa carried any contract, the International carries the contract. Please spare me the NY syndrome, if you don't like it move to Tulsa with your superior seniority, of course you may not have a choice, right. Are you on Agency Fee? You could only pay part of your dues, then you would have some left over for your bills.

What do you mean we are all screwed, I am satisfied with what I have, because there is really nothing I can do about it. I do not want or need your sympathy and will not ask for it. It would seem that you are the one looking in that direction?

Advocating separation? That is exactly what your post does.

Let's revisit my post which upset you so much...

I mentioned that the historical relationship between the TWU and AA would lead to the TWU doing whatever it takes to save OH......even if it means they would want us to make $22 an hour...THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But nowhere did I ever say get rid of OH nor did I ever say they should make sub par wages.
Please don't twist what I posted...
Would you agree to a, let's say, $10 an hour paycut if AA threatened to outsource all line maintenance? Would gladly agree to further cuts in anything to save anybody else?

I am entitled to my opinion just like you and everyone else here. I've been here a long time but was junior enough not to support the old timers who screwed future mechanics in 1983. And because I've been at AA so long, I know how the TWU thinks and operates. Dating back to the days where our local presidents were either cabin service employees or aircraft cleaners. Mechanics were even the minority in those days when lumped together with fleet and cabin and automitive and facilities.

 

[eolesen]

Is AA looking at getting rid of the maint. lines that AA performs for the other airlines? I believe they are performed at the Tulsa location.

Other than drop-ins, I don't think there's any 3P work going on. The contract with G4 was not renewed by G4, who went with AAR based on bid price. Between the union contract and the overhead put into the bid, AA priced themselves out of the market.

 

[swamt]

Other than drop-ins, I don't think there's any 3P work going on. The contract with G4 was not renewed by G4, who went with AAR based on bid price. Between the union contract and the overhead put into the bid, AA priced themselves out of the market.

Wow. Did not know this. Thanx.

 

[Hopeful]

Is that the way you want to go? Will you allow a guy who is under an alias, so in reality he could even be a member of management, change what you think is right?

So anyone who disagrees with you and your agenda is automatically a member of management? You have devoted your entire TWU career fighting the status quo of the TWU and no one else is allowed an opinion? It's ok for you and no one else?
I'm sorry Bob, I have never been a sheep to the TWU leadership and shore as hell won't be a sheep to you or anyone else. We all know damn well how the TULE majority has treated the rest of us on the line.
You know it and I know it!

 

[Buck]

Let's revisit my post which upset you so much...

I mentioned that the historical relationship between the TWU and AA would lead to the TWU doing whatever it takes to save OH......even if it means they would want us to make $22 an hour...THAT IS A FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But nowhere did I ever say get rid of OH nor did I ever say they should make sub par wages.
Please don't twist what I posted...
Would you agree to a, let's say, $10 an hour paycut if AA threatened to outsource all line maintenance? Would gladly agree to further cuts in anything to save anybody else?

I am entitled to my opinion just like you and everyone else here. I've been here a long time but was junior enough not to support the old timers who screwed future mechanics in 1983. And because I've been at AA so long, I know how the TWU thinks and operates. Dating back to the days where our local presidents were either cabin service employees or aircraft cleaners. Mechanics were even the minority in those days when lumped together with fleet and cabin and automitive and facilities.

You did not support the B-Scale contract, good. But now it would be okay as long as OH takes the hit. No you never, that I can recall ever advocated the demise of OH, but increasing you wage at the behest of OH is okay? Now here we are with a Full Joint Negotiation in bankruptcy. DO you think you are going to get any special consideration now? Since we are all in this under one negotiation group maybe Fleet Service can get some Line and GEO Pay also? Maybe everyone outside of Tulsa?

I will never agree to a pay cut, I might have to take one, but agree never. Outsourcing the Line Maintenance group, ( something I brought up), might as well outsource Fleet Service too. Are you serious. Why don't we agree to put this outsourcing issue to bed and let the negotiators do there job. We really don't have much of a choice anyway.

 

[chris perry]

Other than drop-ins, I don't think there's any 3P work going on. The contract with G4 was not renewed by G4, who went with AAR based on bid price. Between the union contract and the overhead put into the bid, AA priced themselves out of the market.

American Airlines didn't want 3p work,never have.They didn't even make a effort at DWH.They were aarrogant about it at every aspect. The only reson they opened the Delta hanger was so Delta couldnt get it back.

 

[wrencher]

American Airlines didn't want 3p work,never have.They didn't even make a effort at DWH.They were aarrogant about it at every aspect. The only reson they opened the Delta hanger was so Delta couldnt get it back.

So what's going on with DWH now, is it going back to Delta??????? As far as third party work we could have kept 3rd pary work in Kansas City but AA did not want it there etiher the Big push for FAR 145 was just an in house cleaning and disraction allowing some more clipboard jobs for the TWU suckeeeeeeee's.

 

[eolesen]

Bringing up MCIE is such a red herring. Not questioning the quality of the work you guys did, but the place was and probably still is a superfund cleanup job that AA couldn't get away from fast enough. God only knows what has leeched into the soil underneath that place...