PUP Payouts...

[Man of the People]

Next month is the scheduled PUP payout. This will surely be a hush-hush payout, considering we are at or near the bottom in all performance ratings. And we need to keep these "high" caliber people for what reason? While the company discusses how tough its going to be with the price of fuel, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.......... :down:

 

[Hopeful]

Next month is the scheduled PUP payout. This will surely be a hush-hush payout, considering we are at or near the bottom in all performance ratings. And we need to keep these "high" caliber people for what reason? While the company discusses how tough its going to be with the price of fuel, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank.......... :down:

Please allow me to answer this before the pro-company folks do it!

1. Because the market dictates their pay and compensation packages
2. Because we need to keep the "key" talent and not lose them to our competitors
3. Because they are still paid less than their counterparts at other carriers
4. Because they don't have to share the sacrifice!
5. Because that is their "agreement" with the company and it is written in stone that they are to receive these PUPS regardless of stock performance.
6. If you don't like it, quit and go get a college degree.

 

[Ed Norton]

Theres one more reason. Because they are part of the ruling elite and are entitled to it. And yes, their running dog lackeys will be out in force making all kinds of excuses for them. :down:

 

[eolesen]

There is one reason, and one reason only: It's in their contract, and your worthless unions agreed to it.


I don't like the payouts, and won't defend them, but at some point you have to ask if it is worth asking one workgroup to give up a contractual step increase or payout. If you do, then there's not much of a leg to stand on when they come to take away your step increases, cap payouts from the B fund, etc.

You get what you negotiate. And in this case, as much as it sucks, so does management.

 

[nbmcg01]

There is one reason, and one reason only: It's in their contract, and your worthless unions agreed to it.


I don't like the payouts, and won't defend them, but at some point you have to ask if it is worth asking one workgroup to give up a contractual step increase or payout. If you do, then there's not much of a leg to stand on when they come to take away your step increases, cap payouts from the B fund, etc.

You get what you negotiate. And in this case, as much as it sucks, so does management.

Dang, you beat me. That is exactly what I was going to say. The APFA bb was shut down when the former TWA f/as tried to give a "heads up". We had experience with "deadlines" closely aligned with the SEC filings. We also tried to educate on how management "gets around" the pay freeze...just change the title.

That being said, "Fool me once, and so on".

 

[Hopeful]

There is one reason, and one reason only: It's in their contract, and your worthless unions agreed to it.


I don't like the payouts, and won't defend them, but at some point you have to ask if it is worth asking one workgroup to give up a contractual step increase or payout. If you do, then there's not much of a leg to stand on when they come to take away your step increases, cap payouts from the B fund, etc.

You get what you negotiate. And in this case, as much as it sucks, so does management.

Really now....

The why is it that whenever a union gets tough with companies or even cities like we saw with the transit workers in NYC striking, we are considered greedy and unrealistic?

Eric, you keep saying "you get what you negotiate",.WRONG!!!

A gun was placed to our heads by the company and JIM LITTLE had already made his mind up to agree to the company's demands REGARDLESS of what the members voted..

YOU CALL THAT NEGOTIATIONS?

But when a "KEY" executive threatens to leave, AMR rolls over backwards and pays him or her to stay..

 

[upsilon]

Not sure in which thread to post this. I’m curious about the current value of the stock options that AA management received in prior years in view of the tanking of the stock.

Anyone know the value(s) at the time of the grant(s)? Was there a lockup period?

Perhaps Eric and/or FWAAA can tell us if these past controversial ‘bonus’ payouts have meant anything tangible in the pockets of the recipients – so far.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

There is one reason, and one reason only: It's in their contract, and your worthless unions agreed to it.


I don't like the payouts, and won't defend them, but at some point you have to ask if it is worth asking one workgroup to give up a contractual step increase or payout. If you do, then there's not much of a leg to stand on when they come to take away your step increases, cap payouts from the B fund, etc.

You get what you negotiate. And in this case, as much as it sucks, so does management.

Every workgroup gave up more than just a "contractual step increase"
Where have you been for the last six years
:blink:

 

[eolesen]

But when a "KEY" executive threatens to leave, AMR rolls over backwards and pays him or her to stay..

That might have been the case a few years back, but when you've got people like Dave Cush, Jeff Campbell, and James Beer leaving from SVP level positions, and old timers at the MD level like Bob Ciminelli going to work for US Airways, it doesn't look like it's happening as much as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

The PUP plan does reward those who stick around, but given where the stock is today, it's not what I'd consider a retention incentive.


And yes, even though your unions rolled over like a dog begging for a slice of prime rib, it was still negotiating. I can't help it the people you pay to represent you failed in their duties...

 

[Boomer]

That might have been the case a few years back, but when you've got people like Dave Cush, Jeff Campbell, and James Beer leaving from SVP level positions, and old timers at the MD level like Bob Ciminelli going to work for US Airways, it doesn't look like it's happening as much as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

The PUP plan does reward those who stick around, but given where the stock is today, it's not what I'd consider a retention incentive.


And yes, even though your unions rolled over like a dog begging for a slice of prime rib, it was still negotiating. I can't help it the people you pay to represent you failed in their duties...

E-,
Your position is not tenable.

With what we know now, versus what we believed then, the Unions had an opportunity to negotiate.

Given the ability of an air carrier to abrogate Union contracts and then have them held as enforceable: there was no negotiation possible. What an Air Carrier offered was the only option.

The failure of the TWU to push the boundaries by attempting to force an agreement that could be undone by Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy proceedings is an example of cowardice. That is inexusable.

The facts, heretofore unknown, resulting in confirmation of their decision do not change the choices they made.

The TWU failed, has continued to fail, and will continue to fail because they lack a representational relationship to the members they claim to serve.

The temporary loss of the US Mail Contracts, the overbudget costs of Project RedBook, the failure of project VIAWEB, the total disentegration of the project within Line Maintenance for evaluation of Management, the loss of investment ongoing in the M&E project "MAPS": all of these speak to a reliance on BCG by the very people PUP was meant to retain.

The continuity is being preserved by a thinning line of Maintenance Professionals at the Level 5 and below. The rubber band is stretched to max extension.

 

[TWU informer]

No Union Takes any action against these bonuses.

No work group takes any action against these bonuses.

No lawmaker takes and any action against these bonuses.

No stock holder takes any action against these bonuses..

Therefore,

 

[AirLUVer]

No Union Takes any action against these bonuses.

No work group takes any action against these bonuses.

No lawmaker takes and any action against these bonuses.

No stock holder takes any action against these bonuses..

Therefore,

Unfortuntely the only ones that can take LEGAL action against the PUP bonuses are the stock holders or lawmakers. The Unions and Work Groups of AA would unfortunately be breaking the law with anything other than work to rule slowdowns, by committing "illegal" job actions. Until the unions and their members are released by the NMB there cannot be a LEGAL job action.

 

[Hopeful]

Unfortuntely the only ones that can take LEGAL action against the PUP bonuses are the stock holders or lawmakers. The Unions and Work Groups of AA would unfortunately be breaking the law with anything other than work to rule slowdowns, by committing "illegal" job actions. Until the unions and their members are released by the NMB there cannot be a LEGAL job action.

Nothing was more sickening watching Delta, USAir, United, and NWA in their bankruptcy courts.
One day they are begging their respective bankruptcy judges to abrogate their collective bargaining agreements in order to survive and then a day later asking the same judge to increase the pay and compensation of their top executives in order to retain the "key" talent.