Question For Iam/amfa Members

[BigRed1]

Hi Folks:

Just a quick question...It seems you guys have been receiving your well deserved retro payments from the ESOP for quite some time now and I was just wondering how much longer you guys are scheduled to receive such payments. Thanks in advance.

BigRed1

 

[tinpadro]

The retro is not an ESOP payment. It is the difference from the 2000 contract and the one pre BK. The contract that was voted in had a reduction in wages which the company agreed to pay the difference over time since many in the PCE group just got the raise then had to give it up. The last payment is scheduled for Oct 15. Then its all over for that. The ESOP payment was the final payout from State street and my whopping share was exactly .79 cents.

 

[casual rat]

ESOP was an underhanded paycut....(my Micheal Moore/Oliver Stone conspiracy theories really gained momentum upon UAL's BK). At first, ESOP seemed kinda 'fishy' to me--why would anyone in the Corporate/Government theatre let a hardworking 'slob' like me retire in comfort? I had my doubts. All I know is that my 401k contributions became 'Christmas Club' money for its duration--it made my 'at the time' girlfriend pretty happy. It would have been nice if I could have had something to really complain about, when the Stock Market 'tanked'---darn the lack of 'table conversation' anyhow. Life's too serious to take it seriously, I'll live.

 

[mrfish3726]

Yes and if anyone remembers correctly, after filing BK and asking the judge to cut the mechanics pay 13% because the mechanics voted down pay cuts twice. UAL management asked the BK judge to withdraw the RETRO payments, which he refused to do. But he did imposse a 14% pay cut instead. But at least he wouldn't let UAL management steal our RETRO payments like they did our ESOP.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Hi Folks:

Just a quick question...It seems you guys have been receiving your well deserved retro payments from the ESOP for quite some time now and I was just wondering how much longer you guys are scheduled to receive such payments. Thanks in advance.

BigRed1

[post="188861"][/post]​

Retro payments from the contract (EFLOP didn’t have squat to do with it) arbitrated by the PEB and voted in by the membership.

We didn't get 'squat' from the EFLOP fiasco other than giving concessions for stock.
The EFLOP was categorized as a retirement investment and reduced our limit that we could fund our 401K.
Many people lost much of what they had in the 401K to the dot.com bust and 9/11.
And we know how much the EFLOP stock was worth.

It is also interesting to note, that good ole Uncle UAL is proposing that the PBGC use the contract ‘signing’ date instead of the ‘amendable' date for retirements 'when' they are terminated. So, once again we get a nice screwing by our beloved company as it lowers the ‘exposure’ to the PBGC but also lowers payouts to the employees.

(Guess we didn't get screwed enough) :mf_boff:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH……….
I feel the love now!!!!!! :mf_boff: :mf_boff: :mf_boff:

JMHO,
:angry: UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

BigRed1,

On the subject of the EFLOP, I understand that the Pilot Group will somehow(???) be compensated (in part) for their ESOP losses. Do you have the details on this?

Thanks in advance.

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[ualdriver]

Pilots are not getting ANY compensation for the loss of ESOP stock that I have ever heard.

 

[BigRed1]

BigRed1,

On the subject of the EFLOP, I understand that the Pilot Group will somehow(???) be compensated (in part) for their ESOP losses. Do you have the details on this?

Thanks in advance.

Take Care,
B) UT

[post="191842"][/post]​

Hi UAL TECH:

I have been on Furlough now for 9 months. While I am not currently working at UAL, I do attend our Union meetings and have not heard of any compensation for our ESOP losses. We took it in the shorts just like everyone else. We were already compensated actually. I got my check for 67 dollars. Probably would have framed it, but when I got kicked to the street, the kids needed diapers ya know.

I am one of those 40 pilots getting recalled. I'll be back in November. A bit surprised it happened this year, but with the mandatory retirements and other attrition from medical losses, etc, these 40 are strictly to cover those we have lost. I figure we have lost over 100 more from early retirements due to the pension termination issue. We have to retire at 60 of course, and I am curious if you know when most guys leave UAL on the maintenence side of things. Any idea how old your oldest mechanic is? I bet he has some salty ol' stories.

The paragraph above was off the subject of the ESOP compensation, but I read in another thread one of your posts about the recall of 40 pilots while your group continues to be trimmed. You seemed angry they were adding a few of us back to the ranks. I feel for you guys. Without a doubt, the mechanics have been hit the hardest in terms of layoffs and outsourcing. With all these new labor cost savings UAL will be taking from the employees, I may be back out on the street again. I lost my job the last time due to "productivity improvements" for the pilot group. Right now the "low cost operation" (LCO) is as productive as it can be and those guys, and me too very soon, can't legally fly an more hours per year, but it would not surprise me to see some changes at the "Mainline" operation. With them slashing the number of planes in the fleet by next spring, they will no doubt need less pilots and mechanics again. Although, I suppose their plan is to fly more hours with less planes which may explain the continued need to replace a few of the retiring pilots.

Good luck to you and your group. While I look forward to flying again, I have been displaced upon my return to LAX after having been based in ORD for 6 years. Nothing like flying 4 hours to work each way to reserve to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I feel most sorry for my wife and 2 babies. I wonder if this is all worth it and worry about returning to the bottom of the seniority list at a bankrupt company. I can assure you my judgement inside the cockpit is much better than the decisions I seem to be making outside the cockpit.

Take care.

 

[ualdriver]

Welcome back BigRed1. I hope we can fly together so I can buy you dinner and a beer.

ualdriver

 

[UAL_TECH]

Hi UAL TECH:

I have been on Furlough now for 9 months. While I am not currently working at UAL, I do attend our Union meetings and have not heard of any compensation for our ESOP losses. We took it in the shorts just like everyone else. We were already compensated actually. I got my check for 67 dollars. Probably would have framed it, but when I got kicked to the street, the kids needed diapers ya know.

BigRed1,

Happy to hear that you will be back at the yoke (or stick as the case may be) here at the ‘Lazy U’! I bought one share from ‘onestock.com’ just to hang on my home office wall as a reminder of the lost potential and economic rewards that we once had but pissed away due to our fractionalization and mismanagement (but that is another story).

I am one of those 40 pilots getting recalled. I'll be back in November. A bit surprised it happened this year, but with the mandatory retirements and other attrition from medical losses, etc, these 40 are strictly to cover those we have lost. I figure we have lost over 100 more from early retirements due to the pension termination issue. We have to retire at 60 of course, and I am curious if you know when most guys leave UAL on the maintenence side of things. Any idea how old your oldest mechanic is? I bet he has some salty ol' stories.

We too are loosing experienced people regularly through retirement and/or taking positions outside of the industry, but mainly (recently) we have lost many good tech’s through layoffs due to base closures, downsizing, and outsourcing. We have very few ‘old salts’ (55+) left as most have punched out before last June, to save their medical benefits (which didn’t turn out to be what was advertised). The few that we have left will not retire because they understand that there is no such philosophy now. If one would retire and have no benefits and/or income, how can one retire? I understand that your group ‘has’ to retire at 60, but as the new world ‘economic’ pressures come into play, I have small doubt that the age limit will be raised to be in lock step with our new and upcoming social security plan (No limit/No Plan = No Retirement).

The paragraph above was off the subject of the ESOP compensation, but I read in another thread one of your posts about the recall of 40 pilots while your group continues to be trimmed. You seemed angry they were adding a few of us back to the ranks. I feel for you guys. Without a doubt, the mechanics have been hit the hardest in terms of layoffs and outsourcing. With all these new labor cost savings UAL will be taking from the employees, I may be back out on the street again. I lost my job the last time due to "productivity improvements" for the pilot group. Right now the "low cost operation" (LCO) is as productive as it can be and those guys, and me too very soon, can't legally fly an more hours per year, but it would not surprise me to see some changes at the "Mainline" operation. With them slashing the number of planes in the fleet by next spring, they will no doubt need less pilots and mechanics again. Although, I suppose their plan is to fly more hours with less planes which may explain the continued need to replace a few of the retiring pilots.

Yes BigRed1, I am angry that the loss of jobs is affecting the AMT ranks more than any other group and thank you for recognizing this fact. I am not unhappy to see anyone (such as yourself) getting their job back. Take this post into context. Although you may be civil in your representation of the situation, some people are not. When I make a faux pas, I will admit it and apologize and/or seek clarification. Some of your group will not, under any circumstance. The shortsightedness of the lack of unification in our situation by some is disappointing and therefore does not lead me to hold them in high regard.

Good luck to you and your group. While I look forward to flying again, I have been displaced upon my return to LAX after having been based in ORD for 6 years. Nothing like flying 4 hours to work each way to reserve to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I feel most sorry for my wife and 2 babies. I wonder if this is all worth it and worry about returning to the bottom of the seniority list at a bankrupt company. I can assure you my judgement inside the cockpit is much better than the decisions I seem to be making outside the cockpit.

Take care.

Good Luck to you and yours!

Take Care,
UAL_TECH

P.S.

Ualdriver, Watch the ‘bottle to throttle’ rule, I’d hate to see you on CNN…….

B) UT