Question?

[Checking it Out]

Many of the Amfa associates have been so negative towards life, work and others, they have attacked the majority of the posts here and other discussion boards.

Is it possible for any of them to have a positive discussion?

At times here and at work It leads me to believe no matter what direction we go they are always on the negative and want to be confrontational! It gets frustrating at times.

Many of us come do our job, enjoy what we do and go home.

AA and the TWU are working hard to change a culture and I commend them for their efforts. In order to survive in todays highly competitive environment we have to change our way of thinking! Will mistakes be made? You bet? The end result of these changes I hope will be a more positive environment and better working conditions.

Can the Amfa associates change their way of thinking and be positive? They have been told for so long to think negative, I wonder if they can change? Very rarely do we see any of them talk about the positives of the group they are trying to push!

Everyone complains about negative advertising, but in reality it does work! Only problem is! How do you turn this around when you have been trained to think this way for years! If you look at the airlines Amfa represents moral is a big issue to the point participation is at a low!

Example: By all accounts the FM1 at NWA should have been won and many experts in the industry thought it would have been. Even the Amfa was bragging about it! When the verdict came in it basically yanked the air right out of you! Any respect the Amfa had was thrown out the door and with the poor showing at the rally for outsourcing it was obvious the members have no fight left in them!

Is this what Amfa is all about?



Here at AA members are coming back, recalls in LAX, AFW and other locations have shown their is a concerted effort to make it work! We see many changes and instead of closing down facilities, we see remodeling going on to make room for work! Now with MCI extending their work through 2005 their is a sign that we have made the right decision!

Looking for the negative is easy! It is much harder to look at the positives!!!!

Just remember " A POSITIVE ATTITUDE can achieve far more greater returns in Life "

 

[Hopeful]

CIO:

You started an intelligent and logical topic. I will answer you the best I can. You can defend the TWU but I cannot see what good they have done for the mechanic. If saving jobs is the only positive result, then it is good for some but not all. Not to be sarcastic, but if we all worked for $20.00 an hour, there would Be no unemployment at AA. Hell, we could underbid the outsources. Where do we draw the line in the name of job preservation? Those employees getting called back to work in TUL or MCI is all good and well, but others in higher cost areas don't see the same light at the end of the tunnel.

I do not see MCI staying open beyond 2005 in the size and capacity it is now. The original agreement was to maintain 700 people. I do not recall the 700 figure referring only to mechanics. I also cannot see AA maintaining 3 overhaul bases with a dwindling fleet. Fokkers will soon all be gone and then the A300's will be gone.

I have no faith in Little and the TWU. I had contacted Jim Little by phone and then again in person at AL "BLACKIE" BLACKMAN'S 60th anniversary with AA. This was in 2002, after 9/11, and after the TWA purchase. His answer was the same. We have to perserve jobs and AA is on the brink of bankruptcy. His answer to my question about cost of living in areas such as NY, LA, SFO, ORD and others was similar to what a certain vice president answered when posed the same question. "Well, you have to make difficult choices in your lifestyle."

What an answer! Most of us don't live above our means. Most of us have family ties and do not wish to relocate. If we wanted to relocate, where do we go when there isn't any movement anywhere.

I'm sorry CIO, I do not see anything positive. The end of the summer will bring more changes and more pain and suffering and more "shared" sacrifices.


Just remember, the folks at EASTERN AIRLINES, PAN AM, and most recently, TWA, were fed the share in the pain or die mantra til the end. Where did all their givebacks and concessions get them? Where is it getting the folks at UNITED and USAIR? They are being asked for more and more and are in danger of having their pensions discontinued!

Do you really think AA is happy and content with what they took from us?

They will cry like the wind when other carriers eliminate their defined pension plan which will put them at a major cost advantage over AA. Do you really think Little and the TWU will stand up to AA when they threaten us with out pensions?

CIO, I answered your question the best I can.
Now, please answer my question to you!

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP IN ORDER TO SAVE JOBS AND EVERYTIME AA THREATENS BANKRUPTCY?


Maybe a positive would be for AA to shut the doors, and hope Southwest and Jetblue get big enough to hire those willing to stay in this business.

 

[proAMFA]

I'm positively sure the TWU needs to be replaced.

You expect us to put up with the same lousy representation and yet you want us to be positive toward the TWU?

Why should we be positive when the TWU and AA have worked in concert to strip the mechanics and related of our right to select representation?

Should the people of Holland have had a positive atittude when Hitler's troops marched into their country in 1940?

Don't take away our rights and expect us to be happy about it!

Remember the TWU "Change from within" proposal? Well the last election cleary demonstrated that the TWU absolutely will never change from with in.

I will have a more positive attitude the day the mechanics do the right thing and reject the TWU and take control of their own actions rather then allow a group of liberals from New York to rob us of our money to spend on liberal socialist agenda's while aiding the company stripping us of our pay and benefits through plots designed to paint us in the corner. "It's either this or the Vermont plan, brother". The TWU cocked the hammer and the company pulled the trigger. The problem was there months in advance yet somehow nothing got done until we were told that if we didn't vote in the cuts it was bankruptcy. The membership was duped by the TWU. I will NEVER have a positive attitude with a group of theives representing my "best interest".

Take your "positive attitude" position and shove it up your ass!

 

[Rusty]

Many of us come do our job, enjoy what we do and go home.

Exactly what is your job Kevin Goremanns? Do you work out of your box? Those that have, or do work in your area say you do not work at your box, is this true? This is not an attack, just a question but, it is a question that could easily be taken by someone who feels they are being picked on because they are down in the dumps, as negative. Please do not feel this way, I know that those supporting the twu do not have a platform to stand on, which puts them in this precarious situation.

After we get to exercise our right to vote on representation, I will lay down my arms against the dictatorship twu, if the membership says by a vote of the majority they would like to keep the twu, then so be it. Until then Kevin, there will be no peace!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Many of the Amfa associates have been so negative towards life, work and others, they have attacked the majority of the posts here and other discussion boards.

Is it possible for any of them to have a positive discussion?

At times here and at work It leads me to believe no matter what direction we go they are always on the negative and want to be confrontational! It gets frustrating at times.

Many of us come do our job, enjoy what we do and go home.

AA and the TWU are working hard to change a culture and I commend them for their efforts. In order to survive in todays highly competitive environment we have to change our way of thinking! Will mistakes be made? You bet? The end result of these changes I hope will be a more positive environment and better working conditions.

Can the Amfa associates change their way of thinking and be positive? They have been told for so long to think negative, I wonder if they can change? Very rarely do we see any of them talk about the positives of the group they are trying to push!

Everyone complains about negative advertising, but in reality it does work! Only problem is! How do you turn this around when you have been trained to think this way for years! If you look at the airlines Amfa represents moral is a big issue to the point participation is at a low!

Example: By all accounts the FM1 at NWA should have been won and many experts in the industry thought it would have been. Even the Amfa was bragging about it! When the verdict came in it basically yanked the air right out of you! Any respect the Amfa had was thrown out the door and with the poor showing at the rally for outsourcing it was obvious the members have no fight left in them!

Is this what Amfa is all about?



Here at AA members are coming back, recalls in LAX, AFW and other locations have shown their is a concerted effort to make it work! We see many changes and instead of closing down facilities, we see remodeling going on to make room for work! Now with MCI extending their work through 2005 their is a sign that we have made the right decision!

Looking for the negative is easy! It is much harder to look at the positives!!!!

Just remember " A POSITIVE ATTITUDE can achieve far more greater returns in Life "

cio, the only attacks seen on this BB and others is when a person, mostly from behind an alias, posts lies and deceit, and is shown to be wrong. Example: The twu, (aka jim little) claims that AMFA closed two overhaul bases at United. When in fact it was under the iam, the twu's sister industrial union, that allowed this to happen.

Are people negative towards life, work & others? I agree partially with this comment. I will use myself and fellow AMTs here at SAN as reference. I am not negative towards life. I have my health and love of my family and friends. Am I angree towards work? For the most part yes. I am angry that AA changed the overnight inspection process to the point where they created the "No Check" inspection only to have myself and others complain and prove that this was NOT the way to lead the industry in maintenance. We took unnecessary delays. Now AA has changed the "No Check" inspection into an extremely light version of the old 0912 card. AA never said they were wrong. AA has not gone far enough in returning to the leader in A/C maintenance. Am I angry too at the fact that AA management has not done their part in the "Shared Sacrifice" fiasco. I am angry that AA knows how many dollars, down to the last penny, they need in concessions yet they include dead people and others NOT in my craft & class in an eligibility list to the NMB. Doesn't AA know who works where? Am I angry at others? Only at those who lie to me.

Can I have a positive discussion? Yes I can. Is it possible for you to remain a coward and hide behind an alias? Most likely.

AA & the twu have already changed the culture at work. For the negative. Your blind support for the twu is instrumental in showcasing your inability to chose what is right from what is wrong. " They have been told for so long to think negative, I wonder if they can change?" Who told AMFA supporters to be negative? Perhaps it is the actions, and inactions of the twu that create this negative mood.

I am happy that AA AMTs are being recalled. At our union meeting we were told that this is because of the overtime that is being worked at these stations. Where is the concerted effort to make things work? AA has decided it is cheaper to bring people back instead of pay overtime. Are these people coming back to full pay and benefits? This is not a negative comment. This is a legitimate question. Are they? AMFA AMTs at NWA that have been recalled do.

" Looking for the negative is easy! It is much harder to look at the positives!!!!"

Hiding behind an alias is easy. There is no accountability that way. It is much harder to state your name and then speak your beliefs.

 

[Man of the People]

CIO: Let me ask you a question: Would you accept a part-time position in order to bring everyone back? Although no one to my knowledge is part time in Aircaft Maintenance, what is preventing the company from invoking Article 42 of the contractual agreement? There are part time personnel in automotive and facilities maintenance currently. There was more part time language inserted into the 2001 agreement. Do you not see the writing on the wall? Yes, there is anger among the rank and file AMFA supporters, some of which were former TWU-backers who had an opportunity to see first-hand the TWU deception at work. Do you think Little's leadership would fly if he were overseeing the longshoremen's union? With all the concessions, do you think the TWU is leading the crusade of organized labor? The only contribution the TWU is contributing is to the demise of unionism. Passive unionism is for cowards. Those who choose to subscribe to it are contributing to the demise of strong unions. I personally know scoundrels in both camps (TWU/AMFA). Will a TWU lackey change if we go AMFA? Probably not. He/she will probably assume the position of AMFA lackey. Likewise, AMFA pushers who choose to sign the overtime sheet, while people are on the street, should hide their heads in shame. There are some good TWU fighters who would make good AMFA reps, just like there are strong advocates within the AMFA camp that could be contributing by assuming a role within the TWU. If the TWU had any credibility whatsoever, they should be advocating everyone to sign a card in order to facilitate an election once and for all. Rather, they play the role of the prize fighter who would rather duck a challenge by choosing to fight a bunch of tomato cans. Where I come from, you take on all comers. Rather than fight, the TWU would rather duck and hide. It is a shame to see what this union has become. Mike Quill would roll over in his grave to see how fast the TWU now runs. There is an absence of pride in this industry. "It is better to die erect fighting for what is right than spend the rest of your life on your knees begging." In the airline industry, more people are choosing the second option. That is why this industry is fleeting right before our eyes.

 

[Radman]

You wanted a positive replay, well here it is;

NO VOTE NO PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mark Inman]

The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. American Airlines, Inc./TWA Airlines, LLC., 29 NMB 240, 251 (2002).1. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Hopeful;

I have to dissagree with you on one point.

You said that when the other airlines discontinue their pension plans that AA will be at a disadvantage.

Not true.

You see our concessions were so deep, so drastic that not only is the pension liability reduced, but our other concesions such as holidays and loss of vacation more than pay for the pension. Those two concessions account for over $5000 less per year in earnings.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

CIO how low in wage and bensfits are you willing to go. That is the question. You feel its OK to degrade the profession so long as everyone has a job. That is not the way a union works. We might as well be non union the company gets what it wants any way. There is no positive spin on this contract. It suxs and we are stuck with it for at least 5 more years. That is a disgrace in itself. I could give a rats arse if they called back everyone they laid off. This industry has been like this since the begining of deregulation. No job in this industry is secure so move on and get over it. Here is a positive spin AA 3 years and then liquidation. The only thing that changes is the color on the tail.

 

[Checking it Out]

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP IN ORDER TO SAVE JOBS AND EVERYTIME AA THREATENS BANKRUPTCY?

0---Not a cent more!!!!!, unfortunately many have already expressed the willingness to go to a matching 401k equal to or greater than the traditional pension. I remember when AA offered a lump sum payment for retires and many squandered it away and AA had bad publicity over it!

Hopeful, do you believe AA is struggling to stay at the top? I don't believe closing the doors is the answer! I think looking for the good and improving on them is a better approach.

Rusty, Yes, I work out of my Box! I also hold an A&P license. shop steward and sarg-of-arms and enjoy working with the EDR machine in our shop. The supervisors dislike me as well as some of the TWU members and definitely the Amfa supporters. Does this worry me? No! Will I continue to do what I believe is in the best interest of the membership? You bet!!!! I learned a long time ago, you will not make everyone happy, Some choose to be dis-grunted and unhappy! Complain about everything whether it is right or wrong that is there nature! How you choose life is your choice! Having a positive mental attitude is a better solution in Life!

Go back and read the last 8 posts or the next two and see how many made a positive comment? You will see what I am talking about!

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

0---Not a cent more!!!!!, unfortunately many have already expressed the willingness to go to a matching 401k equal to or greater than the traditional pension. I remember when AA offered a lump sum payment for retires and many squandered it away and AA had bad publicity over it!

So the next round of concessions will be a no vote even if AA threatens BK.

I would bet you cave in and agree to whatever they say so long as they keep you working

As far as the 401 you would be lucky to see 10 cents to your dollar drom AArogant Airlies

 

[Bob Owens]

CIO how low in wage and bensfits are you willing to go. That is the question. You feel its OK to degrade the profession so long as everyone has a job. That is not the way a union works. We might as well be non union the company gets what it wants any way. There is no positive spin on this contract. It suxs and we are stuck with it for at least 5 more years. That is a disgrace in itself. I could give a rats arse if they called back everyone they laid off. This industry has been like this since the begining of deregulation. No job in this industry is secure so move on and get over it. Here is a positive spin AA 3 years and then liquidation. The only thing that changes is the color on the tail.

TFAC;

CIO could care less how low the wage goes because he has his sights set on an International position where the "realities" that TWU members must face do not exist. While we lose benifits and wages International officers lose nothing and get raises. They claim that they work for us yet we can not fire them.

 

[Mark Inman]

The Board has determined that the single craft or class of Airline Mechanics, Ground Service, Plant Maintenance, and Fleet Service Personnel is no longer a proper craft or class at either American or TWA-LLC. The proper crafts or classes are Mechanics and Related Employees, and Fleet Service Employees. American Airlines, Inc./TWA Airlines, LLC., 29 NMB 240, 251 (2002).1. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!That’s a positive statement. That means we will never be denied our legal or contractual rights again with out a fight, which is a big improvement over what we have been getting from the TWU for the past 25 years. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

I believe by not signing you are voting, the NMB also determines who is in the class and craft! Not AA, TWU OR any other splinter groups!

Have a Positive Wonderful DAY!!!