Radical and Hateful APFA members trying to kill the recall of TWAers.

[L1011Ret]

Supposedly a BOD meeting has been called for Jan 4 to address a radical and hateful resolution directed at the TWA F/As. Here is a part of the wording of the resolution you can find on NEW APFA. "In exchange for the settlement of these so-called Presidential Grievances, Hutto-Blake agreed to alter a substantial term of the working terms of my contract....." Undoing this agreement of course undoes the recall of 1200 TWA F/As.

Of course NOTHING WAS ALTERED! So the resolution/complaint is really just another smoke screen for other motives.

The first thing you will tell me is that it is not directed at TWA F/As. Well then I will tell you that attached to this lengthy resolution is an older resolution made by Greg Bertolini then STL chair asking that AA recall TWA F/As. The motion was passed by ALL BOD members. The complaint against THB is attached to the TWA resolution.

Secondly no one has put forth a resolutions against JW who repeatedly violated APFA's constitution. Why only TWAers and not JW? Discrimination?

What is it about some APFA members that they just carry on in such a hateful way?

 

[mjk]

Time to make some popcorn. :jerry:

 

[Skymess]

Supposedly a BOD meeting has been called for Jan 4 to address a radical and hateful resolution directed at the TWA F/As. Here is a part of the wording of the resolution you can find on NEW APFA. "In exchange for the settlement of these so-called Presidential Grievances, Hutto-Blake agreed to alter a substantial term of the working terms of my contract....." Undoing this agreement of course undoes the recall of 1200 TWA F/As.

Of course NOTHING WAS ALTERED! So the resolution/complaint is really just another smoke screen for other motives.

The first thing you will tell me is that it is not directed at TWA F/As. Well then I will tell you that attached to this lengthy resolution is an older resolution made by Greg Bertolini then STL chair asking that AA recall TWA F/As. The motion was passed by ALL BOD members. The complaint against THB is attached to the TWA resolution.

Secondly no one has put forth a resolutions against JW who repeatedly violated APFA's constitution. Why only TWAers and not JW? Discrimination?

What is it about some APFA members that they just carry on in such a hateful way?

Stop the high drama. What the BOD is objecting to is THB's agreement made behind their back which involved giving up grievances the union had against the company. Once again, this administration goes charging along on their own agenda while breaking all the rules.

Yes, we didn't open the contract to get the recalls but does that mean they won't charge it against us when we DO open the contract for negotiations. You can bet that's coming.

 

[L1011Ret]

Stop the high drama. What the BOD is objecting to is THB's agreement made behind their back which involved giving up grievances the union had against the company. Once again, this administration goes charging along on their own agenda while breaking all the rules.

Yes, we didn't open the contract to get the recalls but does that mean they won't charge it against us when we DO open the contract for negotiations. You can bet that's coming.

Again you bring in evidence that suggests this is anti TWA. All those grievances were TWA grievances created when TWA and AA merged. APFA has never pushed those 6 year old grievances, yet suddenly some members object to giving them up in favor of job retention? A union's job is protection of jobs. But not this union. It would rather destroy jobs (TWA) and create fear and anxiety in the TWAers in an argument that has no merit.

And what would they charge against you when the contract opens? Nothing, absolutely nothing. The APFA union did not have those grievances against the company, the TWAers did. This complaint against THB says she changed the contract. She did no such thing. You have some members that just love to create an atmosphere of hate.

AA F/As rant about how terrible it is that AA issues warning letters threatening termination for violating sick leave policies. Yet when members of APFA threaten the jobs of 1200 TWA F/As They should stop the high drama?

And since JW is running for President not a single poster complains about how he really violated your contract. Why are there no charges being brought against JW? The system of values is way out of wack and discriminatory.

 

[BartlettAve]

Stop the high drama. What the BOD is objecting to is THB's agreement made behind their back which involved giving up grievances the union had against the company. Once again, this administration goes charging along on their own agenda while breaking all the rules.

Yes, we didn't open the contract to get the recalls but does that mean they won't charge it against us when we DO open the contract for negotiations. You can bet that's coming.

i'm pretty sure the abandoned grievances only affect the former TWA; you've lost nothing there.

and, the APFA is in total control of the contract once it's opened. if AA attempts to penalize APFA for the recall extention, APFA can resist.

IMHO, the future APFA contract is going to big dissappointment to FAs. APFA strength against AA is purely rhetoric. And because of past actions ( TWA staple; RPA voting period extention, etc) APFA will be fighting a lot of "bad karma"

 

[nbmcg01]

Again you bring in evidence that suggests this is anti TWA. All those grievances were TWA grievances created when TWA and AA merged. APFA has never pushed those 6 year old grievances, yet suddenly some members object to giving them up in favor of job retention? A union's job is protection of jobs. But not this union. It would rather destroy jobs (TWA) and create fear and anxiety in the TWAers in an argument that has no merit.

And what would they charge against you when the contract opens? Nothing, absolutely nothing. The APFA union did not have those grievances against the company, the TWAers did. This complaint against THB says she changed the contract. She did no such thing. You have some members that just love to create an atmosphere of hate.

AA F/As rant about how terrible it is that AA issues warning letters threatening termination for violating sick leave policies. Yet when members of APFA threaten the jobs of 1200 TWA F/As They should stop the high drama?

And since JW is running for President not a single poster complains about how he really violated your contract. Why are there no charges being brought against JW? The system of values is way out of wack and discriminatory.

Bill, this issue is not of concern to the former TWA f/as but ALL of the AA f/as that fell off as recently as Oct., 2007. The fact that the furloughed f/as "shared sacrifice" is nearing $700,000,000 should have been compensation enough to OFFER return to all who lost their jobs as a result of 9-11.

This is the type of issue that a LOA SHOULD be used as a remedy but not at the expense of those that didn't receive the "best" representation. Please note that one of the surrendered grievances is the one filed on behalf of our f/as who were furloughed with a 7 year recall. They were never "noticed" that the terms of their furlough had changed. Those that wanted "saving" were covered in this agreement, the rest were sacrificed.

I have always been "uncomfortable" with ANYONE legislating a change to a CBA. It opens too many doors to mid contract changes. So much for bargaining in "good faith". But that being said, this was an NPNR, no change to the CBA. The fact that 9-11 has been used as the mitigating reason is enough to include ALL, not just a select few.

 

[L1011Ret]

Bill, this issue is not of concern to the former TWA f/as but ALL of the AA f/as that fell off as recently as Oct., 2007. The fact that the furloughed f/as "shared sacrifice" is nearing $700,000,000 should have been compensation enough to OFFER return to all who lost their jobs as a result of 9-11.

This is the type of issue that a LOA SHOULD be used as a remedy but not at the expense of those that didn't receive the "best" representation. Please note that one of the surrendered grievances is the one filed on behalf of our f/as who were furloughed with a 7 year recall. They were never "noticed" that the terms of their furlough had changed. Those that wanted "saving" were covered in this agreement, the rest were sacrificed.

I have always been "uncomfortable" with ANYONE legislating a change to a CBA. It opens too many doors to mid contract changes. So much for bargaining in "good faith". But that being said, this was an NPNR, no change to the CBA. The fact that 9-11 has been used as the mitigating reason is enough to include ALL, not just a select few.

In the grand scheme of things that is correct. But the complaint being brought to the BOD is only about THB giving away 2 extra years of recall rights to save 1200 TWA F/As using grievances that applied only to TWA F/As. And I must admit I find it strange that APFA uttered hardly a peep about the non TWA F/As who lost their recall rights earlier. It seems to be the sentiment of many posters here that they would not spend one dime to help furloughees, AA or TWA, extend recall rights. So the much for shared sacrifice that the union has been moaning about over management bonuses. APFA should look in its own house before it throws stones at the management.

 

[kirkpatrick]

And I must admit I find it strange that APFA uttered hardly a peep about the non TWA F/As who lost their recall rights earlier. It seems to be the sentiment of many posters here that they would not spend one dime to help furloughees, AA or TWA, extend recall rights.

I agree. Just two weeks prior to Nov 1, 143 natives fell of the list forever, and I haven't heard a word on the line about them. They and those who fell off at the end of 2006 were at the bottom of scale, and might actually save the company money since the whole interviewing process wouldn't be needed and their recall training would be two to three weeks shorter than newhire training.

MK

 

[Skymess]

I agree. Just two weeks prior to Nov 1, 143 natives fell of the list forever, and I haven't heard a word on the line about them. They and those who fell off at the end of 2006 were at the bottom of scale, and might actually save the company money since the whole interviewing process wouldn't be needed and their recall training would be two to three weeks shorter than newhire training.

MK

The reason I wasn't making a big stink about any of the recalls was probably the same reason everyone else wasn't. Take it how you will, but my contract said 5 years recall rights and that's it. I guess I have a different perspective because, possibly, I wasn't furloughed. I don't know. I tend to be one of those people that follows the rules and doesn't try to change things to suit myself.

The comments about us not worrying about AA FA's only serves to highlight the fact, in my opinion, that it wasn't a TWA thing at all. All the former TWA people tried to make it personal. It wasn't and it's not. The only thing the AAFAs had against the TWA FAs was them trying to steal seniority at our company. We got what we wanted and for us it's done. All these lawsuits and whining about how everything needs to be changed to suit the TWA people's sense of justice is tiresome.

 

[L1011Ret]

The reason I wasn't making a big stink about any of the recalls was probably the same reason everyone else wasn't. Take it how you will, but my contract said 5 years recall rights and that's it. I guess I have a different perspective because, possibly, I wasn't furloughed. I don't know. I tend to be one of those people that follows the rules and doesn't try to change things to suit myself.

The comments about us not worrying about AA FA's only serves to highlight the fact, in my opinion, that it wasn't a TWA thing at all. All the former TWA people tried to make it personal. It wasn't and it's not. The only thing the AAFAs had against the TWA FAs was them trying to steal seniority at our company. We got what we wanted and for us it's done. All these lawsuits and whining about how everything needs to be changed to suit the TWA people's sense of justice is tiresome.

Spoken in a truly self-centered manner. Congratulations for winning the most Ms. self-centered poster contest.

 

[nbmcg01]

The reason I wasn't making a big stink about any of the recalls was probably the same reason everyone else wasn't. Take it how you will, but my contract said 5 years recall rights and that's it. I guess I have a different perspective because, possibly, I wasn't furloughed. I don't know. I tend to be one of those people that follows the rules and doesn't try to change things to suit myself.

The comments about us not worrying about AA FA's only serves to highlight the fact, in my opinion, that it wasn't a TWA thing at all. All the former TWA people tried to make it personal. It wasn't and it's not. The only thing the AAFAs had against the TWA FAs was them trying to steal seniority at our company. We got what we wanted and for us it's done. All these lawsuits and whining about how everything needs to be changed to suit the TWA people's sense of justice is tiresome.

Chris, this is the point I was making from the beginning. 1. It isn't about the former TWA f/as. 2. This is an NPNR, no precedent, no referral, agreement that DOESN'T change the contract. It just addresses the extraordinary losses associated with 9-11. "All" is a pretty broad statement. I've been called on it and now I'm calling you on it..lol 3. The grievances were TWA related and worth a pretty penny. 4. I'm guessing you would be doing the same if you were in the furloughes f/as shoes. It is one thing to complain about changes that "harm" the work force, such as an attempt to lower the recall time. This brings more f/as back which positively affects the active work force. Those "fall offs" were at the bottom to begin with so there should be no outrage (other than the fact that they were "sacrificed") that there has been attempt to save jobs. This is a unions primary responsibility. DFR and all that jazz. To not include them brings into question why AA, the APFA, and the good Senator relate this agreemnent to 9-11.

Nobody tried to "steal" anything from you. It is industry practice to at least negotiate some type of "fair"
seniority merging. I have never thought DOH would have been fair due to our high end seniority. However, I do feel a 4 of yours to 1 of ours should have been looked at, and at the very least kept STL out of the mix. When you have to train AA f/as to become TWA LLC for the remainder of the certificate, then I question the ethics of the move. But that is past history. Good people are back and more want the opportunity to resume their careers.

Happy New Year.

 

[Maark767]

Spoken in a truly self-centered manner. Congratulations for winning the most Ms. self-centered poster contest.

oh Please... I offten wonder how things would have been if TWA F/AS were asked to give some of their senority and the shoe was on the other foot. I'm sure they would of gladly given up their senority..... In your dreams !!! Perhaps 2% not self centered and 98 % CENTERED when it comes to hard earned senority.... Get real...

 

[Veritas]

oh Please... I offten wonder how things would have been if TWA F/AS were asked to give some of their senority and the shoe was on the other foot. I'm sure they would of gladly given up their senority.....

They were and they did when TWA purchased Ozark. IIRC, the Ozark flight attendants received DOH at TWA.

 

[L1011Ret]

oh Please... I offten wonder how things would have been if TWA F/AS were asked to give some of their senority and the shoe was on the other foot. I'm sure they would of gladly given up their senority..... In your dreams !!! Perhaps 2% not self centered and 98 % CENTERED when it comes to hard earned senority.... Get real...

They did when TWA bought Ozark in the mid-80s, Ozark F/As were given DOH. You tend to think everyone thinks selfish like the posters I was replying to. But if you look over thousands of posts on this web site, at every other airline the posters think what you did to the TWA F/As was unconscionable. Some replies compared it to rape.

 

[FA Mikey]

Before raise all other flight attendants up to sainthood. Talk is cheap. Its one thing to say that they wouldn't staple when its talk. The reality of a situation changes everything. With the threat of a merger with usair a while back. United's employee groups were looking for way to protect themselves, usair pilots are fighting over seniority. Lets face it DOH was not the first offer going out to Ozark. DOH is what it became.