Remember this in 2005? Union leaders bad or good?

[SparrowHawk]

Even with the lower volume of snail mail, they *still* brought in 68 billion last year.

They have also, um, "transitioned" over 100k employees already.

Everyone here seems to be missing the key point: They are forced to prepay retiree medical 100% now. This is an HUGE albatross around their neck. They also cannot access any of the overages paid into pension accounts to offset this burden.

HR 1351 would change that. Check it out here.

I will Kev. Pension/Retiree benefits have crushed entire industries in the past, most notably Big Steel so I will likely not be surprised at the content of the pending bill

 

[BoeingBoy]

They are forced to prepay retiree medical 100% now.

Because it was an unfunded liability in the past, with current costs paid from current revenue (actually added to current loses), and that was an albatross around the USPS' neck. The solution then was to create a fund for that liability that would earn interest. Now the answer is to reduce payments to that fund. Like all other government entities, the USPS has ended up having made more promises than it can afford to keep. Plus the electronic age has taken a toll - the number of pieces of mail handled is consistently below forecasts while the total personnel hours worked is consistently above forecast. Lower productivity while facing decreases in revenue is not a formula for success.

Jim

 

[Kev3188]

Lower productivity? Not so much.


Today the USPS delivers 139 percent more mail to 89 percent more delivery points with just 2.5 percent more work hours than it did in 1971.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Lower productivity? Not so much.

Compared to forecast, Kiev, compared to forecast...

The largely one-time gain in productivity resulting from automation (which is what your data is based on) is baked into the numbers now, meaning any incremental increases in productivity are harder to realize. Given the technology that's causing the shortfalls in revenue - electronic communications primarily - gaining any further productivity increases will be more a result of concentrating on markets with more population density while letting the low population density markets make do with less service.

The budget problems will only be solved when government and quasi-government entities reach deals with their workers to lower employee and retiree benefit expectations, just as has happened in the private sector. As I said, government entities at all levels have made promises that they now find are difficult if not impossible to fulfill.

Jim

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Everyone likes to beat up on the USPS. But I think it's kinda cool that for 44 cents, someone will come to my driveway and pick up a birthday card that my friend at the other end of the country will get at her house three days later.

Some great points have been made on this thread (which is getting into water cooler territory) about organized labor, the costs of retiree health care. And with less name calling and insults than might be expected. Thanks, all.

 

[BoeingBoy]

But I think it's kinda cool that for 44 cents, someone will come to my driveway and pick up a birthday card that my friend at the other end of the country will get at her house three days later.

They do that very well, and to any address in the U.S. (plus the rest of the world in conjunction with other countries' postal organizations), but the real cost is probably 50-55 cents when you figure in the funding the taxpayers contribute. Still one of the few bargains left.

Jim

 

[SparrowHawk]

They do that very well, and to any address in the U.S. (plus the rest of the world in conjunction with other countries' postal organizations), but the real cost is probably 50-55 cents when you figure in the funding the taxpayers contribute. Still one of the few bargains left.

Jim

Until they get rid of the scenario like the one here they are doomed.

Traveling on Shoreline Drive from the Mound Post office it is 9/10's of a mile and one left turn onto Shadywood & 3 blocks of Shadywood to the Spring Park Post office. Leaving that Post office one returns to Shoreline, turns left and travels 1.1 miles to the Navarre Post office. So i just over 2 miles I pass THREE post offices and the large local Post office in Wayzata is less than 5 miles, which is where the mail from the three aforementioned mail pick ups go to be sorted.

Until the above issue is addressed the USPS will fail financially. This is a specific local example that repeats itself throughout the country

 

[UPNAWAY]

So the unions have joined the anti capitalism, anti business, pro socialism protesters.

No real big suprise and confirms what I have been saying about all of you hard working middle class Americans being dupped by the communist running your unions and screwing you and your childrens future at every oppertunity.

Unions give Wall Street protesters some oomph

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Union...9.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

 

[Kev3188]

They do that very well, and to any address in the U.S. (plus the rest of the world in conjunction with other countries' postal organizations), but the real cost is probably 50-55 cents when you figure in the funding the taxpayers contribute. Still one of the few bargains left.

Jim

What taxpayer funding?

The USPS is not supported by taxpayer dollars. They get less than $100M from the government annually, and that's compensation for postage free mailing for legally blind people and for mail-in election ballots sent from US citizens living overseas. A chunk of it also pays USPS to provide address information to state and local child support enforcement agencies.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Where do you think the 20 billion they have lost in the last 5 years comes from or the current 9 billion defect? They will never pay that back with revenue.

Here is a real good article on the current mess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/b...les-to-stay-solvent-and-relevant.html?_r=1&hp

in a nut shell this is the problem.......

Labor represents 80 percent of the agency’s expenses, compared with 53 percent at United Parcel Service and 32 percent at FedEx, its two biggest private competitors. Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.

 

[700UW]

You cant compare Fedex and UPS to the USPS, totally different missions, FedEx and UPS doesnt handle the volume that the USPS does and doesnt deliver to every single address in the US six days a week.

 

[SparrowHawk]

You cant compare Fedex and UPS to the USPS, totally different missions, FedEx and UPS doesnt handle the volume that the USPS does and doesnt deliver to every single address in the US six days a week.

True! But it's easier to bash unions if one ignores that simple fact

 

[700UW]

UPS is heavily unionized, and FedEx Pilots are unionized also.

 

[SparrowHawk]

UPS is heavily unionized, and FedEx Pilots are unionized also.

I wouldn't use UPS as a shinning example of successful unionism. UPS has it's share of problems due to the fact that Labor has precious little to bargain for as they are so well paid relative to the skill set required. The workforce is aging and costs are beginning to hurt UPS at the bottom line. It's total Apples to Oranges when one compares the USPS to UPS. The challenges UPS faces are union related and the challenges USPS faces are due to a shifting market whose problems have been identified by Boeing Boy, Kev and myself. The organization is between a rock and a political hard place. You could cut their wages drastically and not address their fundamental problems.

 

[Kev3188]

Where do you think the 20 billion they have lost in the last 5 years comes from or the current 9 billion defect? They will never pay that back with revenue.

The loss comes from have to prefund their retiree medical & pension funds for the 75 years in a 10 year time span. They have to pay 5.9B in annually, something no other entity-public or private- has to do. The USPS was in the black as recently as '05. BTW, the post office was never meant to be a profit center; it was designed to break even.

Plans like the one Issa is pushing through will at a minimum cut another 120k jobs. Is that something you're for?

I wouldn't use UPS as a shinning example of successful unionism. UPS has it's share of problems due to the fact that Labor has precious little to bargain for as they are so well paid relative to the skill set required. The workforce is aging and costs are beginning to hurt UPS at the bottom line. It's total Apples to Oranges when one compares the USPS to UPS. The challenges UPS faces are union related and the challenges USPS faces are due to a shifting market whose problems have been identified by Boeing Boy, Kev and myself. The organization is between a rock and a political hard place. You could cut their wages drastically and not address their fundamental problems.

Apples and oranges indeed.

Lets also not forget that the USPS still delivers ~ 25% of UPS & FX packages/letters to their end destination.