Reserve Petition

[Zarah]

It will be interesting to see what system they go with in the combined contract.

 

[andyperkins]

Kobe1 you’re missing the point, I don’t want to limit anyone from getting more time. I want people to understand they have a responsibility and obligation to abide by the language in our contact. Blockholders that drop time and lower their monthly obligation must then use the ETB to collect time. They are still using the AIL and that is a violation of the contract. I know that overfly letters are being issued to people who are overflying, but this “slap on the wristâ€￾ is considered to be a joke by the offender and is not preventing them from violating the agreement.

Reserves that drink on duty are just playing Russian roulette! They will learn the hard way because there is no forgiveness if you are busted. Some trips are better or worse in each base it seems (seeing that you’re a BH in CLT) that you have the ability to transfer into any base and fly better trips, so that’s not a valid argument here.

 

[LCC_#1]

WE INVITE YOU TO BID RESERVE AND EXPERIENCE WHAT YOU THINK IS SOOOO GOOD

You know airportman, I know alot of f/a's that have done JUST that and LOVE it!! In all fairness, most live in base. For those out of base, too bad. If I sound heartless, you CHOOSE to commute.

My observation has been that it is the commuting f/a that USUALLY biitches. The inbaser are laughing all the way to the bank. They have weekends off, fly 30 hours off the ETB and get paid 103 hours total. And the thought has crossed my mind and before it's all said and done, I might bid RSV. I'm just a tiny bit power thirst and don't want to give anymore power to scheduling than I have to.

I do NOT believe a person should overfly but that is the base managers fault for not enforcing and disciplining people for doing so.

And BTW, it is alot easier to be at a computer on the 23 and 24 of the month to pick up the first etb trips listed than those of us actually working. I mean, if you aren't working, you probably have plenty of time to pick up etb trips.

 

[desertgal]

It will be interesting to see what system they go with in the combined contract.

Well, from what I'm reading here, dosen't seem like the East system makes much sense, nor does it offer much flexibility. And, it looks like some see it as "unfair".
At West, any lineholder can use personals to trade below minimum down to 40cr (or down to zero if its a vacation month). Which many do each month if they don't need the income. If they change their mind, and want to work more, they can get their trips from personals, or company open time, makes no difference. As I mentioned earlier, the company would like to see ZERO open trips, so it makes no sense to restrict someone from picking up from company time.
Plus, fewer open trips equals less negative staffing, which equals more flexibility for everyone.

If a FA is using DPU (company open time) to move trips, or change them to something more desireable, the program will not allow the trade if it brings the FA even one minute below 70cr. (or if they are a high-time flier, whatever the minimum is they marked on their bid)

The personal trade board and company DPU are open to every FA equally.

If East reserves are not getting enuf trips, and are being paid 73 for only working 40, it sounds like overstaffing is the issue, not the trip trade policy.
Plus, a policy in your contract which dosen't make any sense, and dosen't really benefit anyone.
However, if it is a contractual issue, by all means, scheduling should not be allowing it to happen.
If it IS allowed, how can you blame the FA?
Also sounds like the scheduling program y'all are using isn't smart enuf to figure out what a FA has done to their line and keep track of the min obligation.

 

[LCC_#1]

Blockholders that drop time and lower their monthly obligation must then use the ETB to collect time. They are still using the AIL and that is a violation of the contract.

My friend, you need to educate yourself on the contract. SAP doesn't lower your obligation. If you drop in SAP, you are still responsible for your original monthly obligation.

The only way to LOWER your obligation is to drop a trip/s on the ETB down to 40 with an obligation back to 50. If you can't/don't drop trips on the ETB and your original schedule is worth 89 hours, you still owe the company 89 hours REGARDLESS if you dropped down to 60 on SAP. You can't pick up the 29 hours to make up the time off the ETB. The ETB is for extra time and as you know is pay, no credit.

If you have a 89 hr block and you drop 22 hours off the ETB, then your obigation is 77 hours you owe to the company. You can still pick up off the ail up to the 89 hours. You just are no longer obligated by the company.

If I am wrong on any front, please someone correct me. Overfly should be taken as seriously as underfly, for which the company seems to view with much more distain.

 

[andyperkins]

Sorry, im not sure what post I made the mistake in you are correct. SAP does not lower the BH original line award value. section 9 Page9 (9.C.3.f)

Thanks for helping me out

 

[LCC_#1]

Well, from what I'm reading here, dosen't seem like the East system makes much sense, nor does it offer much flexibility. And, it looks like some see it as "unfair".

Desertgal

A little history for you.

When we went the route of the SAP (schedule adjustment period) and ETB, we were to have preferential bidding whereas we f/a's would build our schedules until all the time was gone. The only open time would then be from sick calls or unusual circumstances. On a day to day basis, all trips would be covered and rvs would be used for what they were intended to be used FOR.

This would lower the amt of rsvs and create more blockholders. Since flexibilty would be almost 0, the company adopted the etb for trading trips, dropping obligations and picking up unlimited time. Sounds good. One problem.

The company never implemented the PB system so we still have a system where 20% of our trips are open on a day to day basis. How did the company decide to make sure the almighty weekend was covered? In ch. 22 they made weekends an obligation if your schedule has a trip in it....UNLESS you can drop it in sap or off the etb. This is the inflexable part. Therefore, istead of trip improving off the weekend on the AIL, you pretty much have your hands tied. The weekend obligation is my main beef.

The company knew the rsvs wouldn't fly as much so they allow them to pick up off the etb on their days off...the premise being that if you don't work on your days ON, you could at least make up time on your your days off. Alittle odd, but the saavy reserves have figured it out, do well, and love it. So much that some lineholders HAVE made the switch.

The only ones biithchin are the commuters and those that think they should not pick up on their days off but expect lineholders to pick up on their days off. Think about it. It takes 22-24 days to fly 103 hours as a lineholder. For a saavy rsv? SIX!! 23 days off!! HUM...and some still whine!! There are those that aren't happy, but I will tell you, more than a few have told me it's the best kept secret. I'm just too chicken shiit to make the switch.

 

[kobe1]

Desertgal

A little history for you.

When we went the route of the SAP (schedule adjustment period) and ETB, we were to have preferential bidding whereas we f/a's would build our schedules until all the time was gone. The only open time would then be from sick calls or unusual circumstances. On a day to day basis, all trips would be covered and rvs would be used for what they were intended to be used FOR.

This would lower the amt of rsvs and create more blockholders. Since flexibilty would be almost 0, the company adopted the etb for trading trips, dropping obligations and picking up unlimited time. Sounds good. One problem.

The company never implemented the PB system so we still have a system where 20% of our trips are open on a day to day basis. How did the company decide to make sure the almighty weekend was covered? In ch. 22 they made weekends an obligation if your schedule has a trip in it....UNLESS you can drop it in sap or off the etb. This is the inflexable part. Therefore, istead of trip improving off the weekend on the AIL, you pretty much have your hands tied. The weekend obligation is my main beef.

The company knew the rsvs wouldn't fly as much so they allow them to pick up off the etb on their days off...the premise being that if you don't work on your days ON, you could at least make up time on your your days off. Alittle odd, but the saavy reserves have figured it out, do well, and love it. So much that some lineholders HAVE made the switch.

The only ones biithchin are the commuters and those that think they should not pick up on their days off but expect lineholders to pick up on their days off. Think about it. It takes 22-24 days to fly 103 hours as a lineholder. For a saavy rsv? SIX!! 23 days off!! HUM...and some still whine!! There are those that aren't happy, but I will tell you, more than a few have told me it's the best kept secret. I'm just too chicken shiit to make the switch.

Bravo, LCC. At ;east you understand the frustration of those flying an actual 103hrs vers 40 or so.

If we are so desperate for time, maybe a petition should be started to void the recall and ask the company to make sure all reserves fly at least 73 hours before any recalls!

 

[desertgal]

I knew about the weekend obligation deal, which is awful, and I certainly hope we don't have to keep THAT!
And, I knew y'all approved PBS, but have not implemented it. So that makes a little more sense, plus LCC clarified the policy a little, thanks BTW, cuz it wasn't making much sense to me! LOL!

Westies are overwhelmingly AGAINST PBS, so that is another concern we have regarding the single contract.
I'm not kidding when I say flexibility is our #1 priority.
Its what we based our entire original contract negotiations on. The first TA was resoundingly shot down because it did not have enuf flexibility.
Our other big concern on the single contract is losing our vacation, as that is a big part of our flexibility.

Our reserves definitely get used and abused, so you won't catch anyone EVER contemplating bidding reserve on purpose!! There is no silver lining there!

 

[2clippedwings]

The only ones biithchin are the commuters and those that think they should not pick up on their days off but expect lineholders to pick up on their days off. Think about it. It takes 22-24 days to fly 103 hours as a lineholder. For a saavy rsv? SIX!! 23 days off!! HUM...and some still whine!! There are those that aren't happy, but I will tell you, more than a few have told me it's the best kept secret. I'm just too chicken shiit to make the switch.

I might have some of the details wrong but I think reserves get 11 or 12 days off. You are obligated to the company on reserve days (consequently they are not days off).
What happened to Preferred Bidding? Is the union on top of following through on pushing the company to get this implemented?
I recall a few years ago a very senior flight attendant that liked to brag about how very much she over flew as it brought her earnings WAY up for retirement. As a furloughee, I saw this as a blatent disregard for fairness let alone a violation of the contract. She was not the least bit concerned about an over fly letter from the union or company.
Being savvy always has its place in working the system but as in everything else, within bounds.

 

[LCC_#1]

What happened to Preferred Bidding? Is the union on top of following through on pushing the company to get this implemented?
I recall a few years ago a very senior flight attendant that liked to brag about how very much she over flew as it brought her earnings WAY up for retirement. As a furloughee, I saw this as a blatent disregard for fairness let alone a violation of the contract. She was not the least bit concerned about an over fly letter from the union or company.
Being savvy always has its place in working the system but as in everything else, within bounds.

As usual, there was gray in the contract and management never implemented. I think alot had to do with the high cost.

Retirement should NEVER be a reason for overfly. In the old system, one could fly up to 105...way enough considering the burnout with that many hours..been there, done that. In the old system, many of those senior mamas were flying international and the then 6 trip option, which when flying Rome was 118-120 hours. Way enough!!

In the new system, the soon to be retiring f/a can pick up to 500 freakin hours off the etb if they want AND considering so many are apart of a click to keep the TA flying upon themselves, I'm sure MANY of their fellow TA(transatlantic)flyers give them trips. So there is no sympathy here.

I feel there should be a system that throws a trip out at the end of the month if there is an overfly. I promise you if a f/a waited until the last 5 days and went to overfly and time was taken away because of such and that f/a had to scramble to even make their obligation, they would learn not to overfly.

 

[TheWatcher]

Commuters are the only ones having problems with this? Do the FA's not have families as well? Are those people having problems with this system? If not, see me for job, can use people like that in my business Non complaining and doing as i say no questions asked.

 

[andyperkins]

Desertgal

A little history for you.

The only open time would then be from sick calls or unusual circumstances. On a day to day basis, all trips would be covered and rvs would be used for what they were intended to be used FOR.

This would lower the amt of rsvs and create more blockholders. Since flexibilty would be almost 0, the company adopted the etb for trading trips,

The only ones biithchin are the commuters and those that think they should not pick up on their days off but expect lineholders to pick up on their days off. Think about it. It takes 22-24 days to fly 103 hours as a lineholder. For a saavy rsv? SIX!! 23 days off!! HUM...and some still whine!! There are those that aren't happy, but I will tell you, more than a few have told me it's the best kept secret. I'm just too chicken shiit to make the switch.

Desertgal, LCC#1 has some good points but there is always 2 sides to any story. I’ve heard that the Senior union negotiators did not want PrefBid , not the company. 2 reasons, 1. This very senior group wanted the flexibility to augment their schedules and hang on to the AIL that they covet, and 2. The union realized that PrefBid would cause layoffs.
LCC also wrong in saying that reserves are getting 103 hours in six days. The reserves only get ll days free of duty in the month. Trips they pick up off the ETB must be on a day off or vacation day and have to depart later than 10 am on the first day they are off and must be back in base at 6 pm the day before they go on duty, any trip outside of those parameters a reserve can’t touch. Any reserve getting 103 hours is flying at least 1 trip a week from scheduling (sitting on quick call/ready reserve) and then giving up the scheduled off days and taking any trip that the blockholder wants to drop. They are flying at the least 20 days of the month to get 103 hours not 6.

Commuters are the only ones having problems with this? Do the FA's not have families as well? Are those people having problems with this system? If not, see me for job, can use people like that in my business Non complaining and doing as i say no questions asked.

Do I have to move to Texas?

 

[xoxo]

If we are so desperate for time, maybe a petition should be started to void the recall and ask the company to make sure all reserves fly at least 73 hours before any recalls!

You are kidding..Right? I am at MAA an about to lose my job again and we are finally able to come back..and you say this... :down:

 

[usflyguy]

I HAVE SPENT MOST OF MY CAREER AT AIRWAYS ON RESERVE, BUT I HAVE TO SAY THE ETB HAS TO GO!! JUST ANOTHER WAY AROUND SENIORITY. THERE USED TO BE A LITE AT THE END OF THE RESERVE TUNNEL....BETTER SCHEDULE AND TRIPS, BUT THATS ALL GONE. THEY NEED TO CREATE MORE LINES AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF RESERVE FLYING OPEN TRIPS. RESERVE SHOULD BE FOR COVERING SICK CALLS AND MAYBE VACATION RELIEF