SAFETY

[hp_fa]

This is what I am talking about. But you folks can suit yourself and do whatever you feel is right. Just remember US is in a precarious position right now and anything to make the operation work and take care of the customer should be considered. Overall it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I'm gone from US. This is just my opinion.

I agree with the first part of your third sentence, but have a different read on it.

If an incident, with injuries and/or aircraft damage, were to occur while doing some form of non-standard pushback in which it came out that one or more of the ground personnel were uncomfortable with what was being done it would be a very bad situation both with public opinion and the regulatory folks. To me, and maybe it is just me, the second portion of your third sentence doesn't account that what is right for the customer is being safe even if it means being a bit slower then normal.

 

[allstrike]

Last night in PHL an a/c pulled into the gate short of the line.The #2 engine was shut down and the beltloader pulled up and parked for the aft bin door open.
The jet way was not steerable and could not line up with the door.
The ramp dude tells the pilot to throttle up the #1 engine and give it the gas to pull the a/c up to the line so the jetway can line up.He does.......
He didnt even know the belt loader was still in position,I watched this from 20ft away in my truck going I cant beleave what Im seeing,I dont even know if anyone was in the back bin or not.
By a strock of luck nothing happened,the jetway pulled up and they hooked up power,the pilot and crew still had no Idea what had happened.

This was about the stupidest stunt Ive seen,Ive been working jets since 1978 and never seen this one beat,just stupid.
So is this guy the ground handler in the wrong or the company hero,you decide...lol :down:

 

[Seatacus]

So is this guy the ground handler in the wrong or the company hero,you decide...lol :down:

I think he was wrong and careless. The are ways to do non-standard operations but they must be thought out carefully and performed by experienced personel.

the second portion of your third sentence doesn't account that what is right for the customer is being safe even if it means being a bit slower then normal.

I see your point, but sometimes doing something that is not by the book does not mean it isn't safe.

 

[tadjr]

I didnt think ground equipment was to be brought to the plane unless it was chocked. If it were chocked, how could you do a powerup on number one without running over the chocks? You dont unchock to powerup forward.
If the plane was chocked and equipment brought up, then decided the jetway wouldnt work, you dont throttle up again, you hook up the towbar and pull the plane forward at this point.
There are two different scenarios with two different procedures for this depending on what exactly transpired.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I didnt think ground equipment was to be brought to the plane unless it was chocked. If it were chocked, how could you do a powerup on number one without running over the chocks? You dont unchock to powerup forward.
If the plane was chocked and equipment brought up, then decided the jetway wouldnt work, you dont throttle up again, you hook up the towbar and pull the plane forward at this point.
There are two different scenarios with two different procedures for this depending on what exactly transpired.

The guy was trying to surprise the passengers and have the luggage at the Baggage Claim before they got there! Yeah Right!

 

[diogenes]

The company doesn't have a safety policy because they love their employees - the FAA mandates such a policy. When a carrier applies for an operating certificate, one of the many things it does is negotiate a safety policy with FAA - thus the differences between individual carriers, but within overall FAA parameters.

Which leads us to another reason to follow company policy (one does wonder how Kafkaesque things have become when an employee gets in trouble for following policy the freakin' company wrote! !).

If the Feds observe you violating company policy, they can fine the company, who can in turn, burn you down.

Or, Mr. butt-smooch agent can perform an unsafe task, and the company doesn't say boo. Mr. dedicated union man can perform the same task, and get written up. Seen it happen, and the write-up stuck.

I know full well the company asks you to violate safety rules all the time. That same company will crucify you when the chickens come home to roost.

Just say no!

 

[awausairtech]

So is this guy the ground handler in the wrong or the company hero, you decide...lol :down:

Easy was the RED BEACON ON? :cop: If it was the ground handler was in fault BUT also was the Company Hero Who should have had wing walkers!! This just looks like the same OLD NORMAL CLUSTER F*** of AWA/USAIR

 

[ussnark]

Just remember US is in a precarious position right now and anything to make the operation work and take care of the customer should be considered.

That is correct, sir.

One mishap, that you seem willing to risk, will sink US as surely as anything. That is the point. Why risk a high-profile headline, "USAirways Aircraft Rams Terminal to save two minutes", when the company is in such a "precarious position"? Other than a few minute delay, why would you put a multi-billion dollar company in such a risky position, just to "save" a few minutes.

Are you st*p*d? If anything, US should be <b>more</b> cautious, not less.

 

[ramper_in_las]

What I've seen on a number of occasions is a situation at departure time where there is total jetway failure. It, the jetway, will not move and is "dead in the water". Since it could be quite a while before that situation gets fixed, the towbar is angled to push the aircraft away from the jetway, then back. No it dosen't meet the parameters of what is suppose to happen, but we are not talking about a normal situation here.

If the A pumps are off the front wheel can easily be turned. But if the agent does not feel safe pushing the plane then follow the chain of command and inform your Sups. Now if you guys are still TWU your contract should have an article for safety and health. From my standpoint the management from US is in the wrong and someone will be getting some backpay.

 

[allstrike]

Easy was the RED BEACON ON? :cop: If it was the ground handler was in fault BUT also was the Company Hero Who should have had wing walkers!! This just looks like the same OLD NORMAL CLUSTER F*** of AWA/USAIR

Beacon was on,loader pulled up after #2 shutdown.Normal here,they run #1 waiting on the power cable.But hey he had to pull him up underpower,NOT.He was correcting for the fact he stoped him at the wrong line to start with,no big deal in itself except these Jetways dont stear...straight aproach for this gate.

Point is he never got voice com with the pilot,the crew never new the loader was even on the plane.I still dont know if there was any damage.I saw them back the loader up and re posision it after the power fwd.Oh crap maybe they busted the loader.....heaven forbid. Yep bro SNAFU

 

[Seatacus]

That is correct, sir.
Why risk a high-profile headline, "USAirways Aircraft Rams Terminal to save two minutes", when the company is in such a "precarious position"?
Are you st*p*d? If anything, US should be <b>more</b> cautious, not less.

I don't see the likiehood of an aircraft ramming the terminal on a pushback, do you? It's just a pushback with a little modification. And no I'm not stupid just being practical. Suit yourself and do whatever you want it's your company to keep afloat not mine.

 

[hp_fa]

I don't see the likiehood of an aircraft ramming the terminal on a pushback, do you? It's just a pushback with a little modification. And no I'm not stupid just being practical. Suit yourself and do whatever you want it's your company to keep afloat not mine.

You aren't getting the complete concept. That little modification you refer to can be one of the steps that leads to an accident. Most accident investigations pin a series of events down that lead to the accident. They can be human factor issues, training issues, staffing issues, emotional issues, mechanical issues, etc. The idea is to break the chain of events and thereby keep an accident from occurring. Unfortunately, most people never know that they actually prevented an accident by their actions. They simply know that they did what their training and conscious told them was the correct thing to do at that instant.

Here's a fast story from around six years ago. I was deadheading from PHX to LAS to work a flight and we were running a few minutes late. The captain OK'd pushback and dropped his sunglasses. As he was reaching to get them he engaged the nose wheel brake. The plane came to a jarring halt just a few feet back from the jetway and the nose gear was broken. We all had to be removed by airstairs. The flight deck crew was very unhappy as they got off, and there **may** have been additional CRM issues involved.

It doesn't take much to cause an accident and everyone needs to pay attention to details to keep the operation safe.

(Now I am going to wait for the inevitable comment that I am over-reacting and just trying to stand up for folks I don't even know.)

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Point is he never got voice com with the pilot,the crew never new the loader was even on the plane.

Isn't there a warning alerted in the flight deck if the door is open?

 

[allstrike]

Isn't there a warning alerted in the flight deck if the door is open?

He wasnt looking for a light he was watching the ramp guy tell him to come on in.lol

 

[LD3]

That is correct, sir.

One mishap, that you seem willing to risk, will sink US as surely as anything. That is the point. Why risk a high-profile headline, "USAirways Aircraft Rams Terminal to save two minutes", when the company is in such a "precarious position"? Other than a few minute delay, why would you put a multi-billion dollar company in such a risky position, just to "save" a few minutes.

Are you st*p*d? If anything, US should be <b>more</b> cautious, not less.

It's possible, maybe an old Piedmonter from CLT could advise, but I believe back in the 80's PI pushed a tail of a 727 into the main terminal windows. I dont know if that was before the alley had the red warning lines put down on the ground.