Seems NWA and the FAA were cozy after all

[lineguy43]

Well Well Well........Seems that the claims we mechanics had that NW had the FAA in their pocket had some merit after all.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jdq3mffIr8IwLAjubZXXv6DZbfiwD9H4HS7O0

Here is the orignal whistleblowers article.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_06/b4070000689813.htm

 

[WorldTraveler]

The question at this point is "does it really matter?" The FAA is more interested in ensuring safety and seeing airlines change if things are wrong - and given that NW does not exist any more and DL's maintenance processes are in place, it might not matter much in reality that these revelations are now coming to light.
I would be surprised if DL DIDN'T know of some of these concerns and address them already or attempt to distance themselves from these charges.

 

[lucky42]

The question at this point is "does it really matter?" The FAA is more interested in ensuring safety and seeing airlines change if things are wrong - and given that NW does not exist any more and DL's maintenance processes are in place, it might not matter much in reality that these revelations are now coming to light.
I would be surprised if DL DIDN'T know of some of these concerns and address them already or attempt to distance themselves from these charges.

You are right..Would have been nice if this would have been brought to light during the strike instead of buried. A lot of good people lost their careers there including myself..I have a much better career now but a lot of mechanics did ok but some did not and are still having a bad time of it. NW paid the right people and whether you hate unions or not what they got away with was criminal. The FAA is supposed to be there to enforce safety and they turned a blind eye and GW Bush and company were bought and paid for as well as the media. I never would have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

 

[dapoes]

The question at this point is "does it really matter?" The FAA is more interested in ensuring safety and seeing airlines change if things are wrong - and given that NW does not exist any more and DL's maintenance processes are in place, it might not matter much in reality that these revelations are now coming to light.
I would be surprised if DL DIDN'T know of some of these concerns and address them already or attempt to distance themselves from these charges.

Umm maybe you need to digest the articles before making false assertions. It was not only failures with NWA but blatant disregard from the FAA.

What is the important issue here is the FAA whistleblower and the FAA's complacency.

 

[dapoes]

You are right..Would have been nice if this would have been brought to light during the strike instead of buried. A lot of good people lost their careers there including myself..I have a much better career now but a lot of mechanics did ok but some did not and are still having a bad time of it. NW paid the right people and whether you hate unions or not what they got away with was criminal. The FAA is supposed to be there to enforce safety and they turned a blind eye and GW Bush and company were bought and paid for as well as the media. I never would have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

Huh? Bush was bought and paid for by FAA and the media? That's the root cause of the issues mentioned in the OP?

Grasp much?
Drink much?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Umm maybe you need to digest the articles before making false assertions. It was not only failures with NWA but blatant disregard from the FAA.

What is the important issue here is the FAA whistleblower and the FAA's complacency.

I'm not saying the FAA was without fault.... but the issue appeared to be related to certain carriers. AA and WN have been mentioned but others including DL and UA have not. I do not know the specific reasons why some carriers have had charges of being close to the FAA leveled against them but the fact that at this point some carriers had issues and others did not indicates it is/was apparently not an FAA nationwide issue - and there were charges that the Dallas FAA office was part of the problem. Were there similar problems in MSP? who knows.

But you are being unsided if you don't acknowledge that it apparently took two sides - one airline AND the FAA for these problems to exist.

But, once again, there isn't or hasn't been charges that DL was part of the problem - and until/unless it is shown that DL was doing the same things as NW, then the issue became a moot point when the single ops certificate was obtained and NW no longer had control of its maintenance practices - and it is possible that DL knew about these charges and dealt with it before the SOC.

It WASN'T a partisan issue... there have been charges about lax oversight by the FAA for years - and the structure of the FAA and how it relates to the aviation industry goes back across multiple generations.

 

[dapoes]

I'm not saying the FAA was without fault.... but the issue appeared to be related to certain carriers. AA and WN have been mentioned but others including DL and UA have not. I do not know the specific reasons why some carriers have had charges of being close to the FAA leveled against them but the fact that at this point some carriers had issues and others did not indicates it is/was apparently not an FAA nationwide issue - and there were charges that the Dallas FAA office was part of the problem. Were there similar problems in MSP? who knows.

But you are being unsided if you don't acknowledge that it apparently took two sides - one airline AND the FAA for these problems to exist.

But, once again, there isn't or hasn't been charges that DL was part of the problem - and until/unless it is shown that DL was doing the same things as NW, then the issue became a moot point when the single ops certificate was obtained and NW no longer had control of its maintenance practices - and it is possible that DL knew about these charges and dealt with it before the SOC.

It WASN'T a partisan issue... there have been charges about lax oversight by the FAA for years - and the structure of the FAA and how it relates to the aviation industry goes back across multiple generations.

I see what you are saying. I see the subject matter entirely differently as not so much a DL problem anymore (obviously since WN is no longer) but an FAA problem as the whistle-blower was FAA, whistle-blowing the treatment he received by his superiors at FAA. That's the more important underlying issue. Should it be addressed with DL? Maybe, I guess, if those same people and procedures are in place perhaps.

 

[Bob Owens]

I see the subject matter entirely differently as not so much a DL problem anymore (obviously since NWAs no longer) but an FAA problem as the whistle-blower was FAA, whistle-blowing the treatment he received by his superiors at FAA. That's the more important underlying issue.

Therein lies Lineguy43 comments about Bush. If you follow the line up it leads to Bush. We in the industry have suspected that this happens all the time. A contientious FAA inspector wants to do his job properly, he knows that when a carrier dumps all their seasoned mechanics and brings in scabs that mistakes, shortcuts and outright fraud usually follows as the company tries to prove it didnt need those workers to provide safe transportation but the Superiors, right on up to the government in power wants to make sure that the carrier kicks labors butt, so they allow an airline to bring in scabs who are not familiar with the aircraft or the proceeedures and give them a lot of leeway to keep things moving. It was years later that they started prosecuting people at EAL, long after the combined forces of government and capital made an example out of the workers who werent willing to accept less.

 

[Kev3188]

Why is it all I can imagine after reading this thread is orange stickers and the picture of Ted Ludwig holding brake parts?

Dapoes actually brings up a great point. The duality of the FAA's mandate to both promote aviation *and* enforce safety puts at odds with itself. Add to that the very real possibility of collusion between inspectors and carriers (as noted by WT), and you have a recipe for disaster. Has the system been fixed? Good question, but I doubt it...

All I can say is that these concerns were very real, and not some sort of posturing by AMFA.

 

[dapoes]

Therein lies Lineguy43 comments about Bush. If you follow the line up it leads to Bush.

Proof? Or is that just an uneducated, liberal opinion?

We in the industry have suspected that this happens all the time. A contientious FAA inspector wants to do his job properly, he knows that when a carrier dumps all their seasoned mechanics and brings in scabs that mistakes, shortcuts and outright fraud usually follows as the company tries to prove it didnt need those workers to provide safe transportation but the Superiors, right on up to the government in power wants to make sure that the carrier kicks labors butt, so they allow an airline to bring in scabs who are not familiar with the aircraft or the proceeedures and give them a lot of leeway to keep things moving.

That's some conspiracy theory there. "They" allowed what? Is it their roll to step in and circumvent disregarding established rules and procedures? Or is that only if and when the union fails the workers they are supposedly representing. You cant have it both ways.

 

[whoop whoop]

Proof? Or is that just an uneducated, liberal opinion?


That's some conspiracy theory there. "They" allowed what? Is it their roll to step in and circumvent disregarding established rules and procedures? Or is that only if and when the union fails the workers they are supposedly representing. You cant have it both ways.

The nerve of you playing politics with union and anti-union sentiments. The FAA blatantly helped NWA terminate their AMT's careers at the gamble of the flying publics safety. The issue is the FAA as just has been proved, let NWA fly unsafe aircraft, ground an honest inspector all in the name of big business. And YES, AMFA was correct, claiming these aircraft where flying UNSAFE.
It's sad they only let it out now. We all knew it back then. Goes to show the FAA is in these airlines' pockets, and deep.

 

[lineguy43]

Huh? Bush was bought and paid for by FAA and the media? That's the root cause of the issues mentioned in the OP?

Grasp much?
Drink much?

Well lets see. Elaine Chou was secretary of labor at the time and an NWA board member. Can anyone say conflict of interest? In 2001 Bush invokes a PEB to intervene in a possible AMFA strike. At that time NW was ill prepared for a strike as we did all our MX work in house. Then fast forward to 2005. NW spent 2 yrs. and over 2 million to recruit scab as they were prepared to bust the union. So NW forces AMFA's hand to strike the NMB give a release to self help in record time ( when have you EVER seen that) and Bush just turns a blind eye no PEB no nothing because he was told by NW not to get involved....Yes From Bush right on down the chain of command the conflicts of interest were staggering.

 

[tech2101]

Well lets see. Elaine Chou was secretary of labor at the time and an NWA board member. Can anyone say conflict of interest? In 2001 Bush invokes a PEB to intervene in a possible AMFA strike. At that time NW was ill prepared for a strike as we did all our MX work in house. Then fast forward to 2005. NW spent 2 yrs. and over 2 million to recruit scab as they were prepared to bust the union. So NW forces AMFA's hand to strike the NMB give a release to self help in record time ( when have you EVER seen that) and Bush just turns a blind eye no PEB no nothing because he was told by NW not to get involved....Yes From Bush right on down the chain of command the conflicts of interest were staggering.

You also forgot to mention who is Mr. Elaine Chao.

"Ms. Chao, who is married to Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, said the department had accomplished much during her tenure." (NY Times, January 9, 2009)

Before joining Bush's Cabinet, Chao was a distinguished fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington-based think tank.

She also sat on a number of corporate boards, including that of Northwest Airlines.

Like her husband, Chao has a zest for politics and was one of Bush's fund-raising "pioneers" during his 2001 presidential campaign. Members of that group raised at least $100,000 each for his election bid. (link)

 

[Spock]

The nerve of you playing politics with union and anti-union sentiments. The FAA blatantly helped NWA terminate their AMT's careers at the gamble of the flying publics safety. The issue is the FAA as just has been proved, let NWA fly unsafe aircraft, ground an honest inspector all in the name of big business. And YES, AMFA was correct, claiming these aircraft where flying UNSAFE.
It's sad they only let it out now. We all knew it back then. Goes to show the FAA is in these airlines' pockets, and deep.

".. FAA is in these airlines' pockets" ??? No, say it ain't so! When that feeling starts to arouse from time to time, we see the "tuff guy" in them rear their head and smack down this idea that they're in somebodys' pocket. I.E. Anyone remember 2008, American airlines MD-80 wire bundle AD? Done but they didn't like the spacing on the harness lock stitch (1" was called for), but some had 1 & 1/4". Talk about splitting hairs. That cost AA some cash on cancelled flights.

 

[Don Smith]

The facts are such inconvenient things aren't they? The FAA inspector SEES errors in maintenance, does his part and is immediately shot down and handed a desk job. One of the longest threads on this airline forum, "Can you name where the next NWA emergency will be?" (Thanks Pete), is chocked full of instances for a year + after the strike of aircraft having to divert, declare emergencies and the percentage of those types of instances before the strike was practically nil.
In all of those instances we saw very few "inventigations" by the FAA concerning those events. It seems pretty clear to me that the FAA turned a blind eye to the whole problem. And does it make a difference today? Of course it does! If it happened in 2005 it could happen again.