Delta To Adjust Fleet Soon After NW Merger

[North by Northwest]

North,

I see, I am looking at it from a perspective of the merger and certification completed. Meaning if a 747 is moved to another hub there will need to be a replacement of that aircraft on that particular route(probably another wide body).

I also understand that scope will allocate any new flying to the Flight Attendants if not the agreement allows for compensation as a penalty(if that is not the case) so its just another form of protection including the Pacific region simply defines what the foreign nationals are permitted. But I am not reading where they can prevent an aircraft being utilized at all.

So for example, a 747 was placed in another hub and the route was replaced with a 777, technically we are supposed to be awarded that flying, however if not that is when scope offers an alternative if they choose to not immediately crew those positions with those covered under the contract, so instead of them just doing as they please, they would have to pay the Flight Attendant for that loss of trip and flying.

That is partially correct. They must pay them or and the Union may seek an injunction preventing the use of the aircraft and crews from operating on that route. It would become HIGHLY expensive for them to take that route. I think, more than likely they will immediately train some NW crews on the 777, as Delta FAs have no Scope protection to prevent this. That would be the easy answer to moving that ac to the DTW MSP-NRT routes. It is unfair to Delta crews. However, the majority placed themselves in this position by not voting for a contract and all it's protections.

Moreover, you are correct in that ANY new flying into the NRT Hub from the US must be flown by NW crew prior to a single operating cert. Delta would have to prove that any new Tokyo flying was intended prior to the merger..which would be very difficult.

As I said before ...our Scope language is the best in the industry. There was always a serious and uncompromising focus placed on Scope as we knew how valuable the Pacific Division was. If you will remember that was the ONLY section that former negotiators steadfastly refused to alter.

 

[dapoes]

Did you not read where Dignity mentioned after the merger and cert???

 

[Dignity]

North,

probably what will happen, is simply a 747 will be moved and nothing/or another aircraft covered under the agreement will be put in its place for the short term, once the merger is completed and operating under one certificate then new aircraft will be utilized to restore that service that 747 previously offered? maybe move a 400 from the west coast and put a 330 in its place for the time being? that is generally what they do, move it all around.

 

[North by Northwest]

Did you not read where Dignity mentioned after the merger and cert???

Did you not read where Delta intended to MOVE ac immediately upon approval of the merger????
-------------------------------------

Dignity-

I highly doubt that...DTW goes out full with wingtip 400s daily. That would be a insane loss of tremendous revenue. MSP is full with it's daily. By placing a 777 AND a 400 they can maximize rev. by increasing the fares (fewer seats)
same for MSP. The other Gateways will most likely keep the 330.(LA SF SEA Portland, HNL). IF they bring back JFK NRT it will also be with a NW crew.

I am pretty sure they want to put a 400 on ATL - NRT.

 

[Dignity]

North,
I think they would move a 747 from the West Coast before a hub or the 400 from AMS initially, I could not understand why they would eliminate any long haul flying from any mid-west hub to Asia(even one) during the certification process.

 

[Dignity]

That is partially correct. They must pay them or and the Union may seek an injunction preventing the use of the aircraft and crews from operating on that route. It would become HIGHLY expensive for them to take that route. .

with all due respect, I fully understand, we are allocated all new flying, if not as outlined..then compensated for that loss of flying by penalty payment if that is not the case. it is not partially correct its how it is defined, you have written we fly it all exclusively and I agree, but did not mention the other compensation recourses we have in scope as further protections.. The pilots ultimately have decided this all(where aircraft goes where) with their ratified agreement effective at day one.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Did you not read where Dignity mentioned after the merger and cert???

Please reread the title of the thread. It is about immediate a/c movement after DOT approval but BEFORE single-operating certification.

ff:

 

[Dignity]

Luke,
I believe all opinions and ideas are relevant as long as they stay on the topic of aircraft/fleet movement or adjustments (immediately after approval, during certification processes and after completion)

more than likely any aircraft being moved will not affect your group more so than it would affect ours in the short term, as any new flying would probably enhance service currently offered by adding a flight at your hubs.

who knows what they have planned, but that rumor of a base is just that, there have been no announcement and certainly no ability to place a bid to transfer to any new base at this time.

our airline is being merged, we dont even know if we will have representation going forward and potentially how that will effect our lives shortly after an approval..by having wide body aircraft moved out of our bases, so please keep that in mind.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke,
I believe all opinions and ideas are relevant as long as they stay on the topic of aircraft/fleet movement or adjustments (immediately after approval, during certification processes and after completion)

more than likely any aircraft being moved will not affect your group more so than it would affect ours in the short term, as any new flying would probably enhance service currently offered by adding a flight at your hubs.

who knows what they have planned, but that rumor of a base is just that, there have been no announcement and certainly no ability to place a bid to transfer to any new base at this time.

our airline is being merged, we dont even know if we will have representation going forward and potentially how that will effect our lives shortly after an approval..by having wide body aircraft moved out of our bases, so please keep that in mind.

Diginity,
I appreciate your comment and although I certainly am not the Moderator of the board, I was the Topic starter and thus have appreciated your and North's information as it relates to Scope before certification. If we get into what a/c is going to fly what route after certification (which could be as long as 2 years away), then it's anybody's guess and is actually not of immediate concern. It would also pull in general fleet discussions which wasn't my original intent here. (I understand Airliners.net has a forum dedicated to this.)

My original intent was to garner information from other sources as it relates to the topic immediately at hand. If this pre-certification fleet repositioning starts happening, it will be in just a few short months time and has the potential (not saying it definitely will--that was the purpose of starting the topic to gather knowledge) of disrupting some lives along the way.

 

[Dignity]

your initial post mentioned not aircraft but specifically 747, your post also indicates a base in ATL and staffed by associated Flight Attendants shortly after an approval and during the certification process.

Luke,
what they intend to do shortly after the merger and subsequently after certification involving a wide body especially a 747 matters a great deal to many Flight Attendants who fly that aircraft and live around those bases(and is relevant in my opinion, while maybe not others that is fine.).. While you mentioned your group was "angry" you maybe have unknowingly dismissed the fact that some in our group may be affected by having to be transferred or at worst the complete loss of particular 747 wide body flying in our current bases. then I am referred to another web site to discuss this further?

Maybe the discussion was more of an attempt to give some peace of mind to our colleagues who are 747 qualified and having that "peace of mind" (after all is said and done) a suitable sized wide body will take it place in order to continue that route 'after' certification as a replacement who may happen to stumble across this forum and read that rumor. Maybe it was just a way to share different ideas and opinions, maybe I just felt like typing what was on my mind based on how I interpret the post that you initially started(with a rumor attached to it)..

 

[North by Northwest]

I think we moved into discussing two different scenarios. Pre-certification (which is what Dal is talking about) It really is very simple in the terms that, ALL flying into Tokyo/Asia from the US from former and future NW cities (expect from previously served Dal cities) is fence protected for NW Crews (with or without NW pilots). New ac type placed on those routes into Tokyo/Asia must be staffed by NW Crew, all 400s must be staffed by NW Crew regardless of location.

After certification it is a whole different ball game. They may do as they like AFTER the FA election.

Thanks for your input Dignity and Luke.

(if this goes through..I think I am going to like the New Delta/NW! Based on the fine Union Delta brothers and sisters I've met)

 

[Dignity]

I think we moved into discussing two different scenarios. Pre-certification (which is what Dal is talking about) It really is very simple in the terms that, ALL flying into Tokyo/Asia from the US from former and future NW cities (expect from previously served Dal cities) is fence protected for NW Crews (with or without NW pilots). New ac type placed on those routes into Tokyo/Asia must be staffed by NW Crew, all 400s must be staffed by NW Crew regardless of location.

you are absolutely correct however, if the company violates that staffing or any new A/C that affects Flight Attendants covered under the agreement pre-certification.. they(Flight Attendants) then have a contractual right to seek recovery of lost compensation(that is why a written agreement is so important)

I hope you have a nice evening.

 

[justanadd]

Luke,
To my knowledge, the only 400 people coming into ATL would be the transfers from Headquarters due to facilities closing shortly after the merger, this was announced mid summer shortly after it was also announced that 2500 jobs would be cut. there has been no announcement for any new flying at any new base. These 400 jobs(from headquarters to headquarters) are more than likely internal and have no relevance to In Flight and may not occur until 2010.

Maybe nothing offical has been announced but an company email was sent to all ATL commuters inviting them to a dinner in Atlanta hosted by Joanne Smith and Julie Showers

 

[Dignity]

!!!OMG... I wonder if that was the 'super secret' Shusssh!... 'If you are on a level dont bother showing up'... dinner for the ultra perfect, ultra classy.. super duper stew crews? this is what I heard...they served fried chicken but this was the... clincher...when they brought it out, the chicken was served whole had it wings spread outward and appeared to be in the shape of a...well...747..taking off into the horizon off a plate of mashed potatoes(that sorta kinda resembled a certain..southern downtown, a little lumpy but you get the idea!) and the tail of the chicken had this fine but subtle writing...that said..."hint hint"... I also heard that instead of serving a nice tall glass of sweet tea or a "co-cola"....the servers brought out "green tea" and were winking as they served..and said!..."green tea...like on 747" "green tea...like on 747". its all making sense now..... :blink: !!!OMG!!! :blink: ...

 

[Kev3188]

'If you are on a level dont bother showing up'...

If you aren't on a level, your aren't livin'.....