Delta To Adjust Fleet Soon After NW Merger

[LukeAisleWalker]

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/qp/ap/_...r/rfid145067823

It's official according to the report above.

From an email making the rounds:

F/As w/ the Employee Involvement Group recently confronted Richard, Sandy Gordon, et al about the movement of aircraft before the companies operate under one certificate (i.e. 'rightsizing'). Management was not amused that an internal memo had been leaked, but the F/As were a little ticked at being left out of the details. In addition to ATL- TLV/NRT/Sao Paulo being flown on 747s, the company has plans for the A/C to fly FCO-JFK/ATL on them as well. To do this, they plan on setting up a base of about 400 NWA F/As in ATL. There may be a 2nd ATL-NRT flight if business is there

The cancellation of ATL-HNL was confirmed to convert the A/C to intl flying, and our planes will be moved to DTW, MSP,and the West Coast. No details on which bases will cover the flying or follow the A/C. Commuters may be affected if domestic equipment is moved, since we cant actually jumpseat on A/C we're not qualified on at present until a single operating certificate exists.

Some F/As feel that they wont be affected, but the loss of 4 fairly senior intl trips and HNL in ATL, the whole apple cart will overturned. Who knows where MEM & CVG will fall in the rankings, but I sure management will let us know in their own time or when we are deemed worthy of details. Just get ready for a bumpy ride.

 

[Kev3188]

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/qp/ap/_...r/rfid145067823

It's official according to the report above.

From an email making the rounds:

F/As w/ the Employee Involvement Group recently confronted Richard, Sandy Gordon, et al about the movement of aircraft before the companies operate under one certificate (i.e. 'rightsizing'). Management was not amused that an internal memo had been leaked, but the F/As were a little ticked at being left out of the details. In addition to ATL- TLV/NRT/Sao Paulo being flown on 747s, the company has plans for the A/C to fly FCO-JFK/ATL on them as well. To do this, they plan on setting up a base of about 400 NWA F/As in ATL. There may be a 2nd ATL-NRT flight if business is there

So much for the "open and direct relationship" most DL'ers are always trying to sell us on...

With the leadership team in place, these types of actions will become the rule, not the exception.

Welcome to the "new NW."

 

[Dignity]

to me based on the comments posted, if aircraft is moved from one hub to another hub, of course the crews would follow the aircraft until a single operating certificate has been incorporated together.
It would not make sense to wait to move an aircraft solely for a Flight Attendant to become qualified(when qualified crews are currently trained on a specific aircraft) especially if the seats are needed in the immediate future on a route.. also, if the 747 is moved to another hub on new routes, the routes that aircraft previously served would also need a replacement in the interim. So if a 747 is newly positioned then a 777 or 767(qualified crews) would more than likely have to be positioned where that 747 was currently operating(so it all balances in one way or another)
until the two airlines operate under one certificate after cross training is completed.

I would also think it would be necessary for ground and maintenance crews to become familiar with new aircraft coming into the hubs(fairly soon) as they are now part of the fleet.

may have to also take into consideration... depending on what the pilots agreed to regarding their scope(if there was any modification), if they permit aircraft to be flown into their hubs/bases during the period of combining two operating certificate because of the ratification of their new contract(the pilots have a contract in place at day one), well there you go..

 

[dapoes]

So much for the "open and direct relationship" most DL'ers are always trying to sell us on...

With the leadership team in place, these types of actions will become the rule, not the exception.

Welcome to the "new NW."

I think people are making much ado about nothing. Its an operational issue on how to best utilize the aircraft available. People are trying to put the cart before the horse. Its gonna be ok...

 

[metopower]

Memo is true to a point. Old news but is not set in stone. Crews would deadhead from msp to atl to fly the trip ....Pilots not FA,s.Delta 777 crews would deadhead to Dtw or msp to fly nrt...Pilots not Fa,s 747 not for fco but 330 again pilots not fa,s . atl -hnl is change of a/c to 767 er from 767-400. seasonal for now but I think will be perminent.
Reason that Fa,s are not following the aircraft is because they can be cross trained on other aircrafts easly and is less disruptive. Pilots are required to stay with certification . Now that is the plan unless there is some restriction in the NWA FA's contract.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Memo is true to a point. Old news but is not set in stone. Crews would deadhead from msp to atl to fly the trip ....Pilots not FA,s.Delta 777 crews would deadhead to Dtw or msp to fly nrt...Pilots not Fa,s 747 not for fco but 330 again pilots not fa,s . atl -hnl is change of a/c to 767 er from 767-400. seasonal for now but I think will be perminent.
Reason that Fa,s are not following the aircraft is because they can be cross trained on other aircrafts easly and is less disruptive. Pilots are required to stay with certification . Now that is the plan unless there is some restriction in the NWA FA's contract.

"Pilots, not FAs"
This statement would be false based on the logistics of cross-training 21,000 f/a's in the next few months.
Not to mention I believe the NW AFA contract will still be intact until another vote is taken. From what I read, there is a "fence agreement" within their current contract which prevents DL f/a's from flying their a/c.
Later, if AFA is elected, a new contract will be negotiated (while the fence agreement is still in effect) or, if not voted in, NW loses their contract and the cross-training will immediately begin.
So, I would guess the entire (747 or A330) NW crew (pilots AND f/a's) would be deadheading down to ATL or over to JFK.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I think people are making much ado about nothing.

Of course you do. While it's small as far as the world-at-large is concerned, as a microcosm of what this merger could potentially entail and a loss of flying, I wouldn't say it's "nothing."

Its an operational issue on how to best utilize the aircraft available.

We understand that already.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse.

Perhaps but the jury is still out.

Its gonna be ok...

Of course it is. While it will affect people, in the scheme of what's going on in the world..war, genocide, financial failure, disease...it pales in comparison.

 

[dapoes]

See luke, you get it already!

 

[Dignity]

"Pilots, not FAs"
This statement would be false based on the logistics of cross-training 21,000 f/a's in the next few months.

I agree, there is absolutely no way over 20 thousand Flight Attendants could be cross trained in a few months, generally it would be at least 18 months minimum.

 

[Dignity]

Its an operational issue on how to best utilize the aircraft available.

I agree with that comment, operationally it makes sense to deploy aircraft to where is makes the most 'financial sense' and where the demand for seats is needed, the 747 with its range and seating capacity can absolutely fill an immediate need as that is one purpose of a merger(to potentially realize savings from the beginning while maximizing revenue) . The 747 qualified Flight Attendants will absolutely follow that aircraft where ever that aircraft is deployed same as the 777 qualified Flight Attendants will follow their aircraft until all Flight Attendants have been cross trained and the airline is operating under one certificate.

 

[metopower]

"Pilots, not FAs"
This statement would be false based on the logistics of cross-training 21,000 f/a's in the next few months.
Not to mention I believe the NW AFA contract will still be intact until another vote is taken. From what I read, there is a "fence agreement" within their current contract which prevents DL f/a's from flying their a/c.
Later, if AFA is elected, a new contract will be negotiated (while the fence agreement is still in effect) or, if not voted in, NW loses their contract and the cross-training will immediately begin.
So, I would guess the entire (747 or A330) NW crew (pilots AND f/a's) would be deadheading down to ATL or over to JFK.

You assume that they are training 21000 fa's to fly those trips. Not at first only those that will hold those trips. You maybe right about the whole crew deadheading .As I said this is the plan subject to the NWA FA contract. I can imagine a side letter to the existing contract to address this issue. All I know is that I've been told that I will see a lot of msp ,dtw ,nrt and China in the future.

 

[Kev3188]

I think people are making much ado about nothing. Its an operational issue on how to best utilize the aircraft available.

Not me... I'm all for optimizing the fleet/route network.

I'm just pointing out that the "open and direct relationship" you guys are always pimping might not be everything it's made out to be. A lot of people at the Widget are in for a big culture shock when it comes to how mgmt. operates.

My point about the new regime stands.

People are trying to put the cart before the horse.

I see you've used this multiple times today; Is the new Dapoes mantra?

Its gonna be ok...

...Or are we sticking with the tried and true standby?

 

[North by Northwest]

"Pilots, not FAs"
This statement would be false based on the logistics of cross-training 21,000 f/a's in the next few months.
Not to mention I believe the NW AFA contract will still be intact until another vote is taken. From what I read, there is a "fence agreement" within their current contract which prevents DL f/a's from flying their a/c.
Later, if AFA is elected, a new contract will be negotiated (while the fence agreement is still in effect) or, if not voted in, NW loses their contract and the cross-training will immediately begin.
So, I would guess the entire (747 or A330) NW crew (pilots AND f/a's) would be deadheading down to ATL or over to JFK.

You are correct Luke. Moreover, our contract allows us to trade trips outside of base.

Until there is a single operating certificate under any merger..all a/c flown by NW pilots must be operated with NW Cabin Crew.(scope section/ the strongest in the industry) Furthermore, our LPPs cover flying outside of pilots, primarily the Pacific Division, Atlantic Div. therefore, until there is a new contract even flights to NRT/Asia from DTW and MSP or any other "NW Gateway Routes" [Sea,LA, BOS, HNL, and NYC fall under contractual NW staffing. (Scope, gateways, mergers, partial transactions) We go with the planes and the routes. Scope may be the most valuable of all contract sections. I don't see how they can move a 777 to DTW-NRT without violating our scope. There is almost NO possibility of a side letter at this point. (they would have to be willing to give up something huge to NWAFA).

That's a lot of senior flying being switched over to NW crews...a result of the last election. Those senior Delta folks in that 60% shot themselves in the foot in so many ways.

On another note, you can pretty much bank on the NMB being fumigated upon Obama's Presidency.

 

[phllax]

US did the same thing right after the merger closed. East aircraft, especially the 321, started appearing on West routes (PHX-LAX, PHX-SAN), and West aircraft started operating East routes (EWR-CLT-PBI).

It caused many challenges, different engine types on the Airbus fleet between East and West, different cabin service guidelines (PHX-LAX is no-serve on East, but full beverage on West). It also caused challenges if the airplane had a technical problem in an out station like PBI, or if crews got sick and needed to be replaced (More for West crews operating in the East network. A fair amount of East people live in CA). East pilots and F/A's also stay together the entire trip, on the West they do not.

Most of that type of flying was stopped by this summer.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

You are correct Luke. Moreover, our contract allows us to trade trips outside of base.

Until there is a single operating certificate under any merger..all a/c flown by NW pilots must be operated with NW Cabin Crew.(scope section/ the strongest in the industry) Furthermore, our LPPs cover flying outside of pilots, primarily the Pacific Division, Atlantic Div. therefore, until there is a new contract even flights to NRT/Asia from DTW and MSP or any other "NW Gateway Routes" [Sea,LA, BOS, HNL, and NYC fall under contractual NW staffing. (Scope, gateways, mergers, partial transactions) We go with the planes and the routes. Scope may be the most valuable of all contract sections. I don't see how they can move a 777 to DTW-NRT without violating our scope. There is almost NO possibility of a side letter at this point. (they would have to be willing to give up something huge to NWAFA).

That's a lot of senior flying being switched over to NW crews...a result of the last election. Those senior Delta folks in that 60% shot themselves in the foot in so many ways.

On another note, you can pretty much bank on the NMB being fumigated upon Obama's Presidency.

NxNW,
Thanks for the info. May I ask...is this rumour about the ATL base for NW f/a's feasible?
I guess once the DOT approves and Bastian becomes NW's CEO, would it, per your current AFA contract, allow for the opening of a new base?