Single Operator Certificate

[jalbalpa]

If Delta decides to violate the IAM and AFA scope clause this is what will happen:

1. Grievance will be filed
2. Expedited Arbitration
3. An injunction will be filed in court
4. The big inflatable rat will come out
5. Leafletting will begin at airport


I hope Richard and company know what they are doing!

 

[dapoes]

If Delta decides to violate the IAM and AFA scope clause this is what will happen:

1. Grievance will be filed
2. Expedited Arbitration
3. An injunction will be filed in court
4. The big inflatable rat will come out
5. Leafletting will begin at airport


I hope Richard and company know what they are doing!

Haha, thats hilarious! Look how well that worked out for LOA 35!

 

[BABABOOY]

It's not as simple as, once SOC is granted there is no
"NW" aircraft and NW pilots anymore? Seems pretty cut
and dry no?
also I have a question. If both Stations are staffed with NW and DL
and both have a "crown room" but then of course they close the
world club and leave the Crown room. what happens to those employees
that use to work in the world club? FWIU they are not working
in the "DL crown room" because of union contracts, so what happens to
them?

 

[Kev3188]

It's not as simple as, once SOC is granted there is no
"NW" aircraft and NW pilots anymore? Seems pretty cut
and dry no?

No.

 

[BABABOOY]

I guess we shall see then. The AFA is selling us on
the "scope clause" and how important it is. I mean
this could blow their whole argument out of the water.
Imagine that A PMDL crew working the A330 or 744.

 

[BoeingBoy]

With all the possible twists and turns, everyone can probably see why the simplest course is for DL to honor the spirit of the PMNW employee's contracts. Of course, there are some possible downsides that could affect some people - the example someone mentioned of a NW and DL club in the same statiion and the NW club closes. I have no idea if PMNW club employees are covered by a contract, but if so it could be that the PMNW club employees could lose their job as the logical consequence of still treating them as NW and not DL. It's hard to argue that DL must abide by the PMNW contracts but must ignore those same contracts if not doing so hurts PMNW employees.

There really is no perfect solution that protects every employee from both PM companies, but abiding by the intent of the non-integrated PMNW unionized groups contracts seems to be both the better and easier path for DL to take if DL wants to foster an atmosphere of good relations between management and labor.

Dignity has made one point that I absolutely agree with - the employees are better served by getting seniority and representational issues resolved in a timely fashion. Being neither a "Rah, Rah" union true believer or a "Bah Humbug" union hater, I see the union's job as acting in the best interest of the employees. All the uncertainty expressed in this and other threads is definitely not in the best interests of the employees.

Jim

 

[bullterrier]

I guess we shall see then. The AFA is selling us on
the "scope clause" and how important it is. I mean
this could blow their whole argument out of the water.
Imagine that A PMDL crew working the A330 or 744.

I am union contract ignorant here. Are you saying a crew can't work more than one type of aircraft? I'm sorry, please explain because I really want to know.

 

[Kev3188]

With all the possible twists and turns, everyone can probably see why the simplest course is for DL to honor the spirit of the PMNW employee's contracts.

I agree; let's hope that's what they do for now.

I have no idea if PMNW club employees are covered by a contract

They under the same CBA as agents, res. and clerical.

I am union contract ignorant here. Are you saying a crew can't work more than one type of aircraft? I'm sorry, please explain because I really want to know.

No. They're saying that currently an F/A from one carrier can't work an A/C from the other. For example a PMDL F/A couldn't work on a NW A/C and vice versa.

 

[Dignity]

No. They're saying that currently an F/A from one carrier can't work an A/C from the other. For example a PMDL F/A couldn't work on a NW A/C and vice versa.

unless fences are to be put up.. I don't really see anything in our scope that prevents PMDL Flight Attendants from flying our aircraft and visa/versa.

The scope language does have a reference regarding a side letter that excludes foreign nationals from flying NW aircraft, but it really doesn't say anything that states it excludes pre merger successor Flight Attendants, so this is going to be very interesting.

DL is the owner not NW after the SOC so who knows?

The only thing that is really clear in our Scope.. is simply we have to remain separate minus a combined seniority list.

The way I am understanding it, we can fly their aircraft and they can fly ours after an SOC, as long as we remain separate until the SSN list is combined..

interesting indeed.

 

[Dignity]

With all the possible twists and turns, everyone can probably see why the simplest course is for DL to honor the spirit of the PMNW employee's contracts.

they already said they were going to honor the language up until the group decides regarding representation.

Of course, there are some possible downsides that could affect some people - the example someone mentioned of a NW and DL club in the same statiion and the NW club closes.

I sort of think the "clubs" are going to be covered either way...

I have no idea if PMNW club employees are covered by a contract, but if so it could be that the PMNW club employees could lose their job as the logical consequence of still treating them as NW and not DL.

I hardly think so! lets think positively... OK!

It's hard to argue that DL must abide by the PMNW contracts but must ignore those same contracts if not doing so hurts PMNW employees.

I am going to believe they are trying to do the right thing by their people.

That would actually be the best option!

There really is no perfect solution that protects every employee from both PM companies, but abiding by the intent of the non-integrated PMNW unionized groups contracts seems to be both the better and easier path for DL to take if DL wants to foster an atmosphere of good relations between management and labor.

they seem to have an idea of what they are doing which = good relations!

Dignity has made one point that I absolutely agree with - the employees are better served by getting seniority and representational issues resolved in a timely fashion.

you finally agree with something I had to say?

WOOT....WOOT! :blink:

Being neither a "Rah, Rah" union true believer or a "Bah Humbug" union hater, I see the union's job as acting in the best interest of the employees.

that is what they are supposed to do, but it doesnt always work out in our, members, best interest!

All the uncertainty expressed in this and other threads is definitely not in the best interests of the employees.

Jim

get a grip! people have different opinions!

(I mean that in the nicest way possible!)

OH yeah! and its a forum.



:hugs:

BTW

super :hugs: for...you.

 

[Dignity]

I guess we shall see then. The AFA is selling us on
the "scope clause" and how important it is. I mean
this could blow their whole argument out of the water.
Imagine that A PMDL crew working the A330 or 744.

Just make sure you bring a sweater, cause that gosh darn chiller on the A330 make those galleys chilly!

 

[SkyguyB727]

If Delta decides to violate the IAM and AFA scope clause this is what will happen:

1. Grievance will be filed
2. Expedited Arbitration
3. An injunction will be filed in court
4. The big inflatable rat will come out
5. Leafletting will begin at airport


I hope Richard and company know what they are doing!

What do you mean "If"? The scope clause was violated last spring and continues to be violated every day. Regional Elite (formerly Comair/Delta Connection) employees are routinely doing the work of IAM represented NW employees despite the written assurances to the contrary. A memo went out a year ago saying that in stations where both mainline NW and Delta Connection existed, mainline NW would handle the entire operation. Quite the opposite is happening. Reality is quite different from the written promises.

 

[Dignity]

4. The big inflatable rat will come out

OMG!

No!

Not only do I find that totally tacky!

its scarey!

 

[usfurloughed]

The question isn't the benefits, pay, etc. You're correct that there's no question that those will be separate until the vote is conducted. Day to day procedural stuff is slowing being mixed in for the ramp in the same sort of manner as DALMD88 described for tech ops.

The question on everyone's mind is how obtaining an SOC will affect our scope clause. The 64K questions is; with the entire article tied to all M/L NW and CP aircraft on NW's operating certificate, what happens when said certificate no longer exists?

Because the IAM pulled the plug on representation until the NMB comes back with it's descision on voting, the SOC will take place and NWA will no longer be an airline. The scope IMO will be vacated by the fact that the IAM pulled the plug before SOC. Bad move? We shall see, but i think so.........After SOC, come to work or loose ur job. The IAM blew the interim situation but will have another chance in a year but it might be to late. DELTA will have already sweatened your life with employment.

 

[SkyguyB727]

The scope IMO will be vacated by the fact that the IAM pulled the plug before SOC.

I think you're wrong. There is a clause in the IAM COFPS (Clerical, Office, Fleet, and Passenger Service) contract that states that all provisions of the CBA shall be binding upon any successors or assigns of the Company which acquires ownership and/or control of all or substantiall all of the assets of the Company. Unless the IAM is decertified, the CBA remains in full effect in its entirety.