AFA at Delta goes down in flames...

jimntx

Veteran
Jun 28, 2003
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Dallas, TX
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AND, talk about a spin! The 60% is NOT accurate. It is not a yes/no vote, so it is not a true statement to say that 60% voted NO. Many didn't vote. AND, true to the Bush administration's pro-####, anti-labor stances, the NMB allowed Delta to keep some names on the active list that were DECEASED.

Actually, your statement is not accurate. In NMB elections, no result positive or negative can be certified unless 50%+1 of the active f/as vote. So, not voting is voting NO. Even if every vote cast was FOR the AFA, but only 49% of the active f/as voted, the NMB could not certify the vote.

I would be very careful about making statements that you can not prove in court, such as "the NMB allowed Delta" to keep dead people on the active list. Federal government agencies can make your life very uncomfortable.
 

jimntx

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Jun 28, 2003
11,218
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Dallas, TX
www.usaviation.com
AND, talk about a spin! The 60% is NOT accurate. It is not a yes/no vote, so it is not a true statement to say that 60% voted NO. Many didn't vote. AND, true to the Bush administration's pro-####, anti-labor stances, the NMB allowed Delta to keep some names on the active list that were DECEASED.

Actually, your statement is not accurate. In NMB elections, no result positive or negative can be certified unless 50%+1 of the active f/as vote. So, not voting is voting NO. Even if every vote cast was FOR the AFA, but only 49% of the active f/as voted, the NMB could not certify the vote.

I would be very careful about making statements that you can not prove in court, such as "the NMB allowed Delta" to keep dead people on the active list. Federal government agencies can make your life very uncomfortable.
 
Sep 13, 2006
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Actually, your statement is not accurate. In NMB elections, no result positive or negative can be certified unless 50%+1 of the active f/as vote. So, not voting is voting NO. Even if the every vote cast was FOR the AFA, but only 49% of the active f/as voted, the NMB could not certify the vote.

I would be very careful about making statements that you can not prove in court, such as "the NMB allowed Delta" to keep dead people on the active list. Federal government agencies can make your life very uncomfortable.

Sorry, I don't buy into government conspiracy theories. I am going by what the AFA leaders I know -- who were there -- are saying.

The list is public knowledge, and any one with a computer and a brain will see for themselves that some people are deceased. Further research would show that some people were terminated. Shady practices.

I am getting clarification on the yes/no thing. This is from the Railway Labor act that there will not be a NO option to voting. Weird. To say that 60% of the DAL FAs voted NO is absolutely false under basic rules of basic logic from Reasoning and Logic 101. I see your point, but I stand by that the claim that 60% voted NO is not accurate and is misleading information.
 

jimntx

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Jun 28, 2003
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Dallas, TX
www.usaviation.com
I am getting clarification on the yes/no thing. This is from the Railway Labor act that there will not be a NO option to voting. Weird. To say that 60% of the DAL FAs voted NO is absolutely false under basic rules of basic logic from Reasoning and Logic 101 at The George Washington University (in 1996 anyway -- LOL).

Well, logic or not. In union representation elections, the law states that the election can not be certified unless more than 50% of the eligible voters vote. If you have 100 eligible and only 50 vote, no certification. You have to have 51 vote one way or another. This law predates the current Administration in Washington. It doesn't say that the vote is against the union. It says that the election can not be certified, but the result is the same. No union.

According to the APFA (our f/a union here at AA), if another union was able to get enough signatures to force a representation election here at AA (there was some talk several years ago of doing that), and less than 50%+1 of the active f/as voted, we would be left without any representation at all. The NMB would not have been able to certify the APFA or the other union as the bargaining representative.

But, speaking of logic, it's just like our national elections. If you don't vote, in a way you have voted for whoever won. If you had showed up at the polls and voted for the opponent (or as in my case usually, against the eventual winner :lol: ), maybe the winner would not have won.

By the way, I know several very senior DL f/as. None of them wants a union. They believe that DL management has their best interests at heart and a union can not get them anything they don't already have (I know. I know. Talk about illogic, but that's they way it is.) They also know that if less than 50%+1 vote, there will be no union regardless of how the actual voters voted. So, only one of them voted, and she voted against AFA.

If AFA has proof that "dead people voted" (not literally), then you should be looking for a new union if they don't take it to court. As you say, that sort of shenanigans is very easy to prove. Again, be very careful about making statements you can't prove.
 

WNrforlife

Senior
Apr 17, 2003
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Sorry, I don't buy into government conspiracy theories. I am going by what the AFA leaders I know -- who were there -- are saying.

The list is public knowledge, and any one with a computer and a brain will see for themselves that some people are deceased. Further research would show that some people were terminated. Shady practices.

I am getting clarification on the yes/no thing. This is from the Railway Labor act that there will not be a NO option to voting. Weird. To say that 60% of the DAL FAs voted NO is absolutely false under basic rules of basic logic from Reasoning and Logic 101. I see your point, but I stand by that the claim that 60% voted NO is not accurate and is misleading information.


The AFA spent $5,000,000.00 of dues money from other airline employees trying to court Delta F/A's this last go around. I'm sure the union membership is grateful that their money is being well used. (not!!!)
 

BABABOOY

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Jun 15, 2007
1,305
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The AFA spent $5,000,000.00 of dues money from other airline employees trying to court Delta F/A's this last go around. I'm sure the union membership is grateful that their money is being well used. (not!!!)

Rumor has it that they may have to declare BK because of the large
war chest they borrowed for this election.

Some need to check their emotions at the log on button ;-)