Single Operator Certificate

[Dignity]

I think you're wrong. There is a clause in the IAM COFPS (Clerical, Office, Fleet, and Passenger Service) contract that states that all provisions of the CBA shall be binding upon any successors or assigns of the Company which acquires ownership and/or control of all or substantiall all of the assets of the Company. Unless the IAM is decertified, the CBA remains in full effect in its entirety.

we all know the contracts will remain in place until the election but in its entirety? that is uncertain.

when we changed from Teamsters to PFAA then eventually to AFA they said the same thing, basically everything in our contract would stay the same and then it did not, we actually lost dues check off based on simply a name changing in the contract when we left Teamsters.

Most of us thought we would have representational issues, the election, resolved prior to the SOC as it should have been, but now since it is obvious it will come much later.. it will be very interesting how our scope language holds up should the SOC become awarded at the projected date and if they are able to assign PMDL onto PMNW aircraft.

 

[Kev3188]

The scope IMO will be vacated by the fact that the IAM pulled the plug before SOC.

Actually, that's irrelevant. Remember that A) The contract (yes, in it's entirety) remains in effect up to/until a representation election, and B) The IAM didn't call for a vote at all; rather, they asked for a determination on whether or not NW & DL constituted a single transportation system (altogether different from SOC). The IAM withdrew it's request before the NMB could rule one way or the other.

we all know the contracts will remain in place until the election but in its entirety? that is uncertain.

There's no uncertainty at all.

when we changed from Teamsters to PFAA then eventually to AFA they said the same thing, basically everything in our contract would stay the same and then it did not, we actually lost dues check off based on simply a name changing in the contract when we left Teamsters.

That's right! And do you recall *why* NW initially refused to honor dues check off? No? Here's a hint: They were banking on F/A apathy as a way to choke the PFAA out of existence. Do you remember who was behind that decision? I'll give you a clue; he's now the CEO of Delta Air Lines.

Most of us thought we would have representational issues, the election, resolved prior to the SOC as it should have been...

Who's "most of us?" That may have been the mentality in Inflight, but those I know in ACS that thought that way are few and far between.


@SkyguyB727-- Same language is in the ESSC contract...

 

[Dignity]

There's no uncertainty at all.

because you say so?

We already know for a fact that parts of our contract were
deleted simply for a name changing.

(even after being given reassurance on top of reassurance it would not be the case)

That's right! And do you recall *why* NW initially refused to honor dues check off? No? Here's a hint: They were banking on F/A apathy as a way to choke the PFAA out of existence.

sorry. but they were following the contract to the letter, when the name changed the language was gone.

it was not an emotional attempt banking on some idea of apathy.

some of us have a little more intelligence than some are apparently giving credit...some completely understand why that language was gone and necessary to re-negotiate.

Do you remember who was behind that decision? I'll give you a clue; he's now the CEO of Delta Air Lines.

following the contract to the letter, isnt that the point?

or is it simply some just want what they feel should be enforced and the rest doesnt apply.

come on already.

it is the same ole story over and over and over. The Union negotiates language in the contract.. it doesnt play out as expected and then they turn around and point a finger and blame someone else for actually following the language as it is outlined.

When we are getting paid zero for recurrent training in 2010 based on zero pay negotiated in our contract while PMDL is getting compensated, I am sure that is going to be their fault as well.

The never ending blame game continues...

(whats new)

Who's "most of us?" That may have been the mentality in Inflight, but those I know in ACS that thought that way are few and far between.

so the Flight Attendants have a different mentality..

I dont even recall bringing up ACS and commenting on another employee groups "mentality" or making blanket generalizations in that manner or even the IAM.

I am not necessarily anti-union/contract either.

But I clearly see a problem when it is right in sight too.

(and it is apparent there are issues on both sides)

My whole point was to discuss the differences both pro and con that comes along with these Ideas of Unionism for balanced ideas and opinions.

(it is not one sided, there are real issues that will need to be addressed and some issues that really should be brought to others attention) its a forum a place to discuss openly, hopefully respectfully maybe throw in some humor from time to time as well.

it is apparent "most" on these forums are looking for arguments.

I am not going to give you one.

 

[usfurloughed]

I think you're wrong. There is a clause in the IAM COFPS (Clerical, Office, Fleet, and Passenger Service) contract that states that all provisions of the CBA shall be binding upon any successors or assigns of the Company which acquires ownership and/or control of all or substantiall all of the assets of the Company. Unless the IAM is decertified, the CBA remains in full effect in its entirety.

I could be, but DL will now play this their way and move ahead with or without the IAM. The door has been opened by pulling the vote/cards and hoping to get the upper hand in the certification process. They should have recognized the merger as a 1 certificate airline like they did the US/HP merger before their SOC. It would have been a more fluid transition. Now ? Who knows ? But I think as a company they are going to move fwd and NW will be no more. With or without its " Successors or Assigners " clauses. We will be DL employees at that time if we so choose. It's a gamble that should not have been taken..........Stay Tuned.

 

[usfurloughed]

Just a little note on why I reached the conclusion that I did. This was taken from an article in a legal newletter from Martindale.com Legal Library. The IAM had hence applied for a vote but then recently withdrew that vote process until the new ruling by the NMB....

" The other issue before the NMB was whether it must review the certification status of all unions representing employees at Northwest, not just the unions that filed applications. The NMB determined that, presently, it would only examine certifications related to the unions that filed applications. Thus, for the time being, the NMB will not examine the certifications of the AFA and the IAM since those two unions have not filed applications.( which they did later but withdrew recently) The NMB refused to take a position on whether the certification of a minority union can be preserved indefinitely, which is relevant because the number of Northwest employees in the various crafts or classes is less than the number of Delta employees. The upshot of the NMB's deferral is that no elections currently are scheduled for the flight attendants and the crafts or classes represented by the IAM on the Northwest side, such as fleet service and passenger service.

You Tell Me ??? Nothings for sure...The vote was closer to a sure thing than whats coming after the NMB ruling on changing the way the vote is processed...SOC is right around the corner. 2 Weeks?....The ruling by the NMB ??????????

After SOC we will be DL employees and thats that. Representation should have taken place before SOC. The Successor/Assignee/Transferee Clause is meant to block things like a merger. The merger was not blocked. The assets have been melded togerther. There is no NW, just DL. IMO there will be a refile for representation but it will be too late. After SOC all the contract language will probably be null and void. Welcome to Delta's nonunion world.