Still Working, Still Worrying

[MrAeroMan]

But when people like CEO Dave don't plan and fail it's we and NOT him that pays!

I am so glad we have people on here who know how to plan the perfect life, which results in a perfect harmony in their lives.

Mr. Airplane man, Rush Limbaugh loves you, DITTOS!
A Great BIG DITTO to you ole boy.

Thanks Cav...I appreciate that! I needed a break from counting my Bill Gates kind of money! When all else fails you can count on blaming Rush Limbaugh or anyone else you choose....just God forbid you lay the blame where it belongs. One last thing Cav....denial isn't a river in Egypt! :unsure: or is it?? Enlighten me will ya? I'm sure it's in your Union manual under how to place blame and make it look like it's someone elses fault. I bet Scotty might even be the author.

ps....How you making out on providing me that quote? Did you find it yet or are you still trying to make it up?

 

[PITbull]

You'll never understand living within your means as long as you continue to blame everyone else for the problems of the world. Personal responsibility just isn't part of your leftist vocabulary.
Isn't it awful that some people actually believe it's better to pay cash for things rather than go into debt to get them today. It's terrible some people actually are willing to do without for however long it takes or how long they can rather than be beholden to the monthly credit card statement.
Brothers keeper.. :unsure: ..honestly with siblings like that I would hope I was an only child!

AeroMan,

I gather from your post, you are no business major. Borrowing money today is very cheap, VERY.

PS: When this place shuts down, we won't have to worry about you complaining. We shouldn't hear anything...LOL...

 

[delldude]

CONTRACTS-GOOD OR BAD...NOW THEY MAKE US INTO HAS BEENS.THE GOOD TIMES HAVE ROLLED AND NOW ITS ONWARD INTO OBLIVION.

 

[cavalier]

ps....How you making out on providing me that quote? Did you find it yet or are you still trying to make it up?

I liked the river joke....


I must not have read all your posts addressed to me because I have no idea what you're talking about on this quote?

 

[MrAeroMan]

AeroMan,

I gather from your post, you are no business major. Borrowing money today is very cheap, VERY.

It's no surprise you'd gather that Pitbull. One doesn't need a degree to have common sense tell them it's cheaper to pay cash than it is to borrow no matter what the cost of borrowing money is.
Honestly I couldn't tell you what consumer credit card interest is but I'd bet you a paycheck it's more than borrowing money from a bank for a business investment or a major purchase.

:blink:

 

[MrAeroMan]

I must not have read all your posts addressed to me because I have no idea what you're talking about on this quote?

Imagine that!!

 

[mweiss]

But when people like CEO Dave don't plan and fail it's we and NOT him that pays!

Yup. So you don't plan for this possibility? Then shame on you, too.

 

[mweiss]

Now, I don't agree with you on any level regarding secured debt and unsecured being worse or better or whatever you attempted to imply or infer....didn't make sense and you were far from clear.

Oy! I thought you said you had a business degree! OK, lemme go through this one the long way then. Let's say you buy a $100K house (to make the numbers easy) and put 10% down. You have immediate 10K in equity in the house and 90K in debt. And if you have to sell the house in the first couple of years, you end up under water a bit in most markets, because real estate doesn't usually appreciate more than a few percent per year.

But let's look a few years down the road. You've paid some principal, and the house has appreciated. So your 100K house became a 125K house, and your 90K in debt became 85K in debt. You now have 40K in equity, instead of merely the 15K that you directly put into the house. If you sold the house at that point, you'd have 40K in cash and no debt.

Compare that to unsecured debt. You bought a vacation at DisneyWorld with it instead of a house, and spent 10K on the trip. You have an immediate 10K in debt, at a higher non-deductable rate than you would have with the mortgage. Furthermore, when you pay down 5% of that debt, you're still $9,500 in debt. You can't sell your trip to get rid of this debt. You have debt with nothing to show for it.

See the difference?

However, BK is BK and the point made early (which you missed) is that one type is sanctioned; for the other, it is scorned.

Yeah, yeah. I know. But that's secondary to the more important point, which is that a corporation filing Chapter 7 simply ceases to exist. A person filing Chapter 7 still has to live somewhere and eat; they don't cease to exist. That's where my suicide comment came from. No bad day here.

 

[gso2pit]

Mr. AeroMan,

"Brothers keeper" friend. That is what we are...

So, now that we are blatantly polorized, if it was up to you, "living in your means" means living with no means, or very little. I guess from your perch..."Elitist attitude" abounds. B)

I have to go with PITBull on this one. The employees have given enough. I'm all for saving the company and i'm sure they are too. However, they have just as much of a right to live comfortably as everyone else and they shouldn't be forced to give up everything they've worked so hard for. People do "live within their means" and anyone who says the employees should give more should take a HARD look at the human side of the issue. I have many friends who are usair employees, many of whom are f/a's waiting on foodstamps because the new reserve system STINKS. I know an agent who had to pull her daughter out of TOP TEIR school because of the concessions. So before you go spouting off about Teddy's "full pay to the last day" mentality, take a HARD LOOK at what you're talking about and what you are asking them to give up.. :down: :angry:

 

[mweiss]

gso, you're missing the topic of the thread,

The point being discussed is the amount of blame to be assigned to those who file for bankruptcy relative to the amount to be assigned to their employers.

Whether you've given enough or not is a topic that is currently being covered in only about fifty other threads.

(says the guy who hijacked a thread this evening to discuss the impact of Alan Greenspan's comments on the stock market)

 

[gso2pit]

What I have learned the hard way is that you have to work backwards from the assumption that NOTHING is forever and you had best operate under the worst case scenario if you want to survive financially.

Where is it Written that you must carry a car payment?

Kids worked their way through college for years, it strengthened their work ethic and sense of accomplishment. Why do parents OWE their kids an education beyond high school?

Why does everyone have to live in a 2200 square foot, 4 Bdroom colonial?

There is no disgrace in honest labor, but you have to live within your means and it is your job to forecast your future.

How did you pay for college BOB? Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some us employees want to help their kids? It's not fair for Dave to take that away! :down:

 

[mweiss]

How did you pay for college BOB? Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some us employees want to help their kids? It's not fair for Dave to take that away! :down:

Nor is it Dave's resposibility to give it. :blink:

 

[cavalier]

Show me where it is written that life is fair?

You're correct Bob. As it is written: "In this life you will have troubles"


Why is that? Here's why. Because the world is filled with evil greedy people that don't care about anyone except himself or herself, it's the human condition. It why corporate America exploits it's labor, it's why people not born in privilege do better working in an union environment. It's why there is constant unrest in the world; it's why most people are not their brother’s keeper.

No Bob, you don't believe this I know. You have leaned a lot in your life growing up under such circumstances but have never learned these facts given your posts and your thinking in them.

This is where we differ, so I thought I would write this post and point it out.

 

[MrAeroMan]

I have to go with PITBull on this one. The employees have given enough. I'm all for saving the company and i'm sure they are too. However, they have just as much of a right to live comfortably as everyone else and they shouldn't be forced to give up everything they've worked so hard for. People do "live within their means" and anyone who says the employees should give more should take a HARD look at the human side of the issue. I have many friends who are usair employees, many of whom are f/a's waiting on foodstamps because the new reserve system STINKS. I know an agent who had to pull her daughter out of TOP TEIR school because of the concessions. So before you go spouting off about Teddy's "full pay to the last day" mentality, take a HARD LOOK at what you're talking about and what you are asking them to give up.. :down: :angry:

Where in this thread are we discussing how much the employees have given? Everyone has a right to live as comfortably as they want to provided they can support that comfort. It's called living within ones means and obviously something that some people on these boards feel is asking too much.
Where is it written ANYONE is guaranteed a comfortable living?? Hard work, perserverance and some PLANNING can get you there but that's just too much to ask according to some. I think the HARD LOOK that needs to be taken is by those that have overindulged in excessive spending and now are caught in a financial conundrum.

 

[MrAeroMan]

Because the world is filled with evil greedy people that don't care about anyone except himself or herself, it's the human condition. It why corporate America exploits it's labor, it's why people not born in privilege do better working in an union environment. It's why there is constant unrest in the world; it's why most people are not their brother’s keeper.

No Bob, you don't believe this I know. You have leaned a lot in your life growing up under such circumstances but have never learned these facts given your posts and your thinking in them.

This is where we differ, so I thought I would write this post and point it out.

So if one doesn't grow up in privilege you need a union to better yourself?? You're kidding right?
My dad was in a union all his life. He walked the pro-labor walk for years and years. He fought for the new members when he was a seasoned worker so they would get a better start at life in the "Brotherhood" than he did. What did he get for all that hard work? Well low and behold all those younger members he and several of his generation fought for turned around and spit in the faces of the retirees on medical coverage. Now 80% of his pension check goes to cover that portion of his premium. Now isn't that the epitome of "Brotherhood"?? I was part of that union also and I got to see how the so called "Brotherhood" took care of it's own. If you were a brown noser and back stabber you did well with them but God forbid you ask a question or put in a hard days work. I was a member of several unions as a matter of fact and I was never impressed with any of them. They each had different names but the inside was the same.
I never came from a background of privilege and I'm doing just fine in the real world. I work hard and make decisions based on what I feel is right, not some union contract. I stand on my own two feet and if I get knocked down I don't stand around and blame someone else. I can admit I made a mistake, learn from it and try like hell never to make it again. I'd rather stand before someone and have them grade me on the job I did and look me in the eye when they do it rather than have a steward in an office on my behalf cutting some deal on my review so they can save one of their bretheren. Nope, I'll make it on my own and if I fail I'll look in the mirror and know who's to blame. It's called personal responsibility, integrity and honesty. While unions are good places for a lot of people they aren't the place for me. I have a lot of friends and several family members at UAIR and they make up membership in every union on the property except TWU. It makes for some interesting Sunday dinner conversation but one thing is clear. Not one of them came from privilege and each of them would do fine without their union card.
One last thing. You don't have to pay union dues to help out people in need. Trust me, it happens everyday.