Still Working, Still Worrying

MrAeroMan said:
So if one doesn't grow up in privilege you need a union to better yourself??
You know what Mr. Airplane...I don't even read your entire posts, I really don't. I just read the first sentence then stop because you are so slanted in your thinking and biased that you fail to even reason what people are saying, instead inject your twisted extreme right wing logic into what you read.
 
Amazing hypocracy, cav. How can you tell what he is reasoning if you aren't even reading what he says?
 
If hard work, standing up for what one believes in even though it's not the popular stance and doing the right thing equate into your right wing extremist label then I'll wear that badge proudly Cav. :up:
The reason you don't read the entire post is because you can't come up with a logical response. Now, back to the IAM manual.... :rolleyes:
 
mweiss said:
Amazing hypocracy, cav. How can you tell what he is reasoning if you aren't even reading what he says?
He can't and never will but in the end it's all someone elses fault because he won't open his eyes and mind to realize there are more sides to an issue than just his. Talk about slanted!! :rolleyes: Amazing....truly and utterly amazing. :lol:
 
You all amaze me.

Hey Mike W, why don't you enlighten MrRightWingMan on what happened to the non-union fleet and customer service agents in 1992, after the pilots took concessions and then Butch rewrote the whole PPG!

On second thought let me just post it.

1992:

US took 40% of the full time agents and made them part-time, which increased their family medical insurance to over $300 a month.

Cut the hours from 40 to a max of 25

Enacted a pay cut

Froze and eliminated thier pension

Outsourced Express, Frieght, Mail and Catering (catering except in CLT, PHL and PIT)

Elimated Vacation, Sick and Occupational Injury time

Enacted the PDO system which had to be used for sick, vacation and OJI, which never let the employee accumulate a sick bank

Laid off numerous workers due to the outsourcing.

So MrRightWing, why don't you ask some of the effected employees how the difference is between having a union and not having a union.
 
mweiss said:
Amazing hypocracy, cav. How can you tell what he is reasoning if you aren't even reading what he says?
You should talk with all your wisdom (you believe) to the U employees. I ignore biased people; example Rush Limbaugh and all his ditto head wackos. They take up too much air space and I refuse to entertain them here as well and why I will continue to ignore Mr. Airplane and his kind with such wacky logic.
 
Yes, I should talk, in fact. For someone who claims to ignore people he believes to be biased, you sure respond to an awful lot of MrAeroMan's posts. :rolleyes:
 
700UW said:
You all amaze me.
I lived it "Mr700 I post nothing but facts" or so you say. I was there when it happened so save your sermon for the break room where you have control over who listens.
 
MrAeroMan said:
If hard work, standing up for what one believes in even though it's not the popular stance and doing the right thing equate into your right wing extremist label then I'll wear that badge proudly Cav. :up:
The reason you don't read the entire post is because you can't come up with a logical response. Now, back to the IAM manual.... :rolleyes:


Mr AeroMan Comments: I have a lot of friends and several family members at UAIR and they make up membership in every union on the property except TWU. It makes for some interesting Sunday dinner conversation but one thing is clear. Not one of them came from privilege and each of them would do fine without their union card.
One last thing. You don't have to pay union dues to help out people in need. Trust me, it happens everyday.




Mr. AeroMan,

Its the criticism of others for standing up and saying no more even if it cost them their job that I see clearly in your posts.

Majority rules the day, even for your Dad's union. What you cite about your Dad's health care coverage premiums is exactly what happened to AFA UAL retirees last year. ( Keep in mind UAL is still in BK Union or no union). The union's position is the co. decieved the retirees to take an early out to perserve the premiums they had if they left. When over 2,500 f/as retired, they raised the contributions.

And I will give a prediction, if U stays around and unions concede, they will do the exact very same thing to the retirees premiums. Guaranteed. And who will be blamed...UNIONS.

You sit on this board as an outsider and Non employee and imply and infer in all your postings that the employees need to basically "suck it up" so that the airline won't cease to exist....what you can't see yet, is for the very reasons you critisize the unions "brotherhood" that did that to your Dad...is the same reasons why U employees on this forum will say "NO MORE". Will that be enough to carry the maority?

Time will tell. I now understand your "anti-union" stance. But if you look deeper in the essence of your anger, you will see that the very members on these boards are fighting this managment for the very reasons your Dad probably wished for someone to fight for him and his retiree medical.
 
MrAeroMan said:
I lived it "Mr700 I post nothing but facts" or so you say. I was there when it happened so save your sermon for the break room where you have control over who listens.
Those are facts, if you say there are not then please refute them.
 
Its the criticism of others for standing up and saying no more even if it cost them their job that I see clearly in your posts.

No, Pitbull. I am not telling anyone what they should do. I don't pretend to tell ANYONE what they should do let alone suck it up so the airline won't exist. If they have weighed the consequences then fine live with the fallout. What I was responding to was a comment that was made about how a stance was being made for people that can't or don't want to move onto another career or start their own business. My position is why not let them make that choice for themselves just like those that say they have had enough have done. Some feel enough is enough and won't give another dime. If that's your stance then great. At least you've made a decision. Then there are others that feel they have given enough already also but through whatever circumstances know they can't replace their income even at the lesser levels that will be forthcoming. These people are willing to stay at the lesser amount so as to keep some portion of their former salary because they know they can't replace it in another business or for many other reasons. If that's their choice then fine. It's THEIR choice just like it's the choice of those that say no more. What makes one choice have priority over the other?

Majority rules the day, even for your Dad's union. What you cite about your Dad's health care coverage premiums is exactly what happened to AFA UAL retirees last year. ( Keep in mind UAL is still in BK Union or no union). The union's position is the co. decieved the retirees to take an early out to perserve the premiums they had if they left. When over 2,500 f/as retired, they raised the contributions.

And I will give a prediction, if U stays around and unions concede, they will do the exact very same thing to the retirees premiums. Guaranteed. And who will be blamed...UNIONS.


I have seen this and if it's proven to be true it is absolutely appalling what UAL resorted to. If it's proven the union didn't do it's homework in the negotiations on this matter then it's still appalling only the blame will shift to the union because they failed their membership. I don't know the specifics of this and you're probably more in tune with what transpired than I am so I will have to digress. I only know what's been written in the paper and we all know how we can trust that now don't we?


You sit on this board as an outsider and Non employee and imply and infer in all your postings that the employees need to basically "suck it up" so that the airline won't cease to exist....what you can't see yet, is for the very reasons you critisize the unions "brotherhood" that did that to your Dad...is the same reasons why U employees on this forum will say "NO MORE". Will that be enough to carry the maority?

I'm not telling anyone to suck anything up. Read above.

Time will tell. I now understand your "anti-union" stance. But if you look deeper in the essence of your anger, you will see that the very members on these boards are fighting this managment for the very reasons your Dad probably wished for someone to fight for him and his retiree medical.

I've said this before. I'm not "anti-union". Union membership hasn't worked for me and from my perspective as you pointed out very well I have a lot of history especially with my Dad's case. Many others have far different stories and that's okay. Good for them. Still, I have a large number of friends and family that are part of unions. I grew up in NY for God's sake. :D How many people are non-union in that region of the country? :D Those friends and family of mine have had their share of problems with their union membership. Some are diehard and some aren't. Some have had good experiences and some have not. Anyway they're still my family and friends and I'll defend them everyday, twice on Sunday!
I can understand your frustration with this management. I am on the outside but their actions thrust their way into my life through people I care a great deal about. In a very strange indirect way I'm just as affected by what happens at UAIR as the employees. What really pushes my buttons is how some blame everything on Dave. Don't get me wrong, he's made every wrong move he could in dealing with this whole thing but to be fair some of the things that have happened aren't any fault of his. It's his dealing with those changes that can be faulted.
Wow...I actually think we may have found some common ground!! :shock: :blink: Who would've thunk it?
 
700UW said:
Those are facts, if you say there are not then please refute them.
I said I lived those cuts. I was there. My pension got froze and eliminated. I don't have to go to anyone to see what the effects were.
 
Aeroman, that was a wonderful post and it makes alot of sense to me. Thanks for taking your time to be honest and upfront.

The union has done me wrong just as the Company has.

Sometimes I feel it is a total fabricated toss up.