Stockholm Syndrome

cavalier

Veteran
Aug 28, 2002
2,409
1
www.usaviation.com
It seems we have on these boards posters who qualify for the human
behavior phenomenon called Stockholm Syndrome. This is where people that are held hostage as for example on flight 847 say things like this: ``They weren't bad people. They let me eat, they let me sleep, they gave me my life''

I am not making light of the facts, of the reality of our situation, because it’s real alright. I am pointing out how a few posters behave this way regardless of the wrongs that have been and are being done to the good U employees.

Right now in Pit hangers we have what is known as a crack down. This is where management decides based on some little spark of misguided truth that abuse is awash among the employees. Everyone knows that times are tough, uncertainty runs high, emotions are rubbed raw, employees are living on the edge yet we have management taking actions like we see in the Pit hangers. These actions do absolutely nothing to promote goodwill between management and labor. They decide to take these kinds of actions at a time when management wants more concessions, more work rule changes, more of our collective heads. One can only assume these actions are being done with the blessings of upper management with the hopes that the end results will be a softened work force who will bend to the never ending demands of more and more concessions. There is more than enough stress to go around and then some; yet these kinds of actions are not only allowed, but are apparently sanctioned by top management. So I say let it be known loud and clear what kind of management we have in place. I remember clearly when Dave S was on the floor preaching that employee abuse and bad managers would not be tolerated but fired. There are certain foreman in the hangers that are known dissension makers with their tactics of abuse of employees over frivolous issues. What happened to the comments by Dave and his promise that this would not occur, is this just another broken promise?

Does this management team believe that they can make us all into victims and we will become one big Stockholm Syndrome so they can have their way with us? Actions speak louder than words and their actions are screaming.
 
Cav,

It's time that we employees get a grip on reality.

It's winter and we are warm. Our bellys are full. We drive automobiles around the city, and buy items to fulfill our needs and wants. We are blessed.

Yes, we would prefer to continue our employment with this company. We've spent decades building its' reputation, and making it an asset to society. Now the robber barons have come upon us. Do we stand as men for what is right? Or do we cower before the big bad ogres? I say stand!

If we base our perceived source of living on the permission of opressors, then we are slaves. We must percieve our source of living on what is good and true, and then stand for what is right. Trusting that free men can make their own way in the world.

If you CHOOSE to not believe that, then start licking boots!

As for the rest of us, we march to the cadence:
 
MarkMyWords said:
Slaves don't have a choice of where they will work......you do......if you don't like it....LEAVE.
Marky,

I got a better idea. Lets just stick around and actually try to influence the real changes that need to be made to save this airline. Boy wouldn't that just frost their asses?
 
AOG -

I couldn't agree more. As I have said a thousand times - I have a lot of respect for you and your posts because you actually identify the problems and come up with REAL solutions. Others come on here and complain about everything, but couldn't offer a real solution to save their jobs.

I do my part everyday to try and point out the flawed and fix the problems that I can. If I was as miserable as some on here, I would leave tomorrow. I love my job. I love what I do. And if it means additional work rule changes and productivity enhancements to keep this job, so be it. If it means additional W2 concessions, then soon the job won't be worth having and I will take my talents elswhere.
 
MarkMyWords said:
AOG -

I couldn't agree more. As I have said a thousand times - I have a lot of respect for you and your posts because you actually identify the problems and come up with REAL solutions. Others come on here and complain about everything, but couldn't offer a real solution to save their jobs.

I do my part everyday to try and point out the flawed and fix the problems that I can. If I was as miserable as some on here, I would leave tomorrow. I love my job. I love what I do. And if it means additional work rule changes and productivity enhancements to keep this job, so be it. If it means additional W2 concessions, then soon the job won't be worth having and I will take my talents elswhere.
Mark,

Your efforts are comendable...and I can't agree more , if only work rule changes was all that is required to fix things? Sadly I believe that this will lead to further headcount reductions that will further damage our ability to deliver a sound product.

I agree that W2 reductions is not the answer....Cuz I believe it has been proven time and again that U does not pay it's people top dollar when compared to the other carriers. I'm also deeply angerd when Dave draws a comparison of our compensation to that of the LCC's....yet he and his hinchmen are rewarded like "Legacy" CEO's on a winning streak....which we are clearly not !!

I for one...would gleefully accept the wages offered to my WN counterpart...and I'd be doing back flips over having his and her work rules as well , for me this would mean an automatic 25% increase in my wages....along with the sole focus of only working actual AOG scenarios with the aircraft....my job has become so protracted Vs. that of my other counterparts in this industry...that sometimes I wonder how we function at all?

Cav maybe dropping some negative bombs?....and maybe he's not offering solutions in kind? I happen to think that he's exposing real problems that hamper us as much as anything else does.....and the solution is within his posts , it would be in a reversal of the oppresive measures and tactics being leveled at the employee's just for starters.

Winning teams do not inspire with oppression.....losing teams do not reward the leadership with lofty salaries and bonuses. They fire those whom fail to deliver the desired results.....and why does U swim against this tide and expect everythig to work out by clobbering the players?
 
cavalier said:
It seems we have on these boards posters who qualify for the human
behavior phenomenon called Stockholm Syndrome. This is where people that are held hostage as for example on flight 847 say things like this: ``They weren't bad people. They let me eat, they let me sleep, they gave me my life''

I am not making light of the facts, of the reality of our situation, because it’s real alright. I am pointing out how a few posters behave this way regardless of the wrongs that have been and are being done to the good U employees.

Right now in Pit hangers we have what is known as a crack down. This is where management decides based on some little spark of misguided truth that abuse is awash among the employees. Everyone knows that times are tough, uncertainty runs high, emotions are rubbed raw, employees are living on the edge yet we have management taking actions like we see in the Pit hangers. These actions do absolutely nothing to promote goodwill between management and labor. They decide to take these kinds of actions at a time when management wants more concessions, more work rule changes, more of our collective heads. One can only assume these actions are being done with the blessings of upper management with the hopes that the end results will be a softened work force who will bend to the never ending demands of more and more concessions. There is more than enough stress to go around and then some; yet these kinds of actions are not only allowed, but are apparently sanctioned by top management. So I say let it be known loud and clear what kind of management we have in place. I remember clearly when Dave S was on the floor preaching that employee abuse and bad managers would not be tolerated but fired. There are certain foreman in the hangers that are known dissension makers with their tactics of abuse of employees over frivolous issues. What happened to the comments by Dave and his promise that this would not occur, is this just another broken promise?

Does this management team believe that they can make us all into victims and we will become one big Stockholm Syndrome so they can have their way with us? Actions speak louder than words and their actions are screaming.
Hey Cavalier,
Weren't you already rebuked by the moderator for your broad generalizations and "diatrobes" by the moderator about this very same subject. Why is it if you are not "anti-management" on this board you are not allowed to have an opinion?
 
AOG -

I agree that work rule changes / productivity enhancements by themselves would lead to additional job cuts, but there is that ALPA carrot out there of 60 additional airplanes. Who is to say that those 60 additional a/c couldn't offset the addtional job cuts? There in lies the problem. None of us know what the plan is, or what the effects will be. Yet everyone gets on here and spouts that the concession stnad is closed or just shut is down. How can you take that stance when you have no idea - other then speculation - of what is being sought after?

I agree that the employee beatings and oppression have got to stop. I have said that for a long time now. They need to start focusing on building things instead of tearing them down, and that includes employee morale.

Also, I agree with you that Dave needs to stop comparing us to LCC's. When Wolfman was at the helm, all we heard was how we needed that parity +1% to compete. Dave and Dave get here and we need to reduce our costs to our "peer group" CO and NW. Now the bar is lowered again and we need to get our costs in line with the LCC's? How is any employee or employee group ever supposed to understand what the goals and objectives are if they change constantly? This not only is an issue with costs and concessions, but with the goals and objectives of each department. Our targets are constantly changing according to the flavor of the day.

Dave needs to provide Direction, Focus, Goals, Motivation and Inspiration.
 
MarkMyWords said:
AOG -

I agree that work rule changes / productivity enhancements by themselves would lead to additional job cuts, but there is that ALPA carrot out there of 60 additional airplanes. Who is to say that those 60 additional a/c couldn't offset the addtional job cuts? There in lies the problem. None of us know what the plan is, or what the effects will be. Yet everyone gets on here and spouts that the concession stnad is closed or just shut is down. How can you take that stance when you have no idea - other then speculation - of what is being sought after?

I agree that the employee beatings and oppression have got to stop. I have said that for a long time now. They need to start focusing on building things instead of tearing them down, and that includes employee morale.

Also, I agree with you that Dave needs to stop comparing us to LCC's. When Wolfman was at the helm, all we heard was how we needed that parity +1% to compete. Dave and Dave get here and we need to reduce our costs to our "peer group" CO and NW. Now the bar is lowered again and we need to get our costs in line with the LCC's? How is any employee or employee group ever supposed to understand what the goals and objectives are if they change constantly? This not only is an issue with costs and concessions, but with the goals and objectives of each department. Our targets are constantly changing according to the flavor of the day.

Dave needs to provide Direction, Focus, Goals, Motivation and Inspiration.
Mark,

You said it all in one phrase, "The ALPA CARROT" 60 planes would offset pilot reductions when coupled to work rule changes...Yet it will do little for those not working in the actual Flight Department.

Maintenance may be spared a few less losses....but what assurances does this provide the rest of the employee's?

I also question the 60 carrot from a practical aspect. Airbus could not build 60 Acft for us within 2 years , if in fact we penciled a deal today , just for starters. This would lead us down a path to secure leases on used mis-matching Acft configurations that will with all certainty dive UP our operating and logistical expenses across the board. This may not be a concern to Captain X...but it would have to offset at the expense of the lower paid rank and file.


Next issue....as you well stated , How can you take a stance against something you haven't seen? Easily I say.....The shear fact that we haven't seen anything that speaks of a direction or a viable solution speaks volumes about the lack of leadership we are once again saddled with. This one issue shakes not only the employee's confidence....it hinders potential investor confidence to the core of their beings. The B- Credit rating is not an arbatrary figure....or a loss in a childish popularity contest. This is a clear cut case of being a rudderless ship.


We agree word for word on the employee oppression issues BTW....it has to stop now !!

You asked How is any employee or employee group ever supposed the goal and objectives when they are changed constantly? Simply they can't....A game plan has to be made and stuck with....with only minor adjustments factored in for operational needs and changes. We still have no clear cut plan or direction....and that goes back to the root of the problem....a complete lack of leadership focus.


You stated "Dave needs to provide Direction , Focus , Goals , Motivation and Inspiration" I can't agree more !!....but we are getting nothing of the kind from him or anyone else in a seat of power.
 
700UW said:
Does anyone think that their probably is no plan?
I was going to mention this very fact until I came upon this post, thank you.

If there was a true winning plan in the cards Dave would be bursting to brag to the world about it and not keep it a big secret like he seems to be doing.

MMW and others wanting to come up with solutions and work together, that is commendable, but shouldn’t that be placed at the feet of management, the ones getting rich, while we all wonder what next week holds. You can't fault people for being negative when everything surrounding them is negative from the top down, and it does come from the top down. There is not one word of encouragement from this management team, all they ever deliver is depressing news and reasons why we all must submit to their vision and wisdom, when the fact is they have shown us all zero vision and least of all wisdom in their leadership.
 
Not to say that I wouldn't be surprised if there was no plan, but the lack of any type of information to employees seems to speak volumes. I understand there is a need to hold back certain points of information for competitive reasons, but you still need to give you employees a peak at Daves vision. To me it is becoming more and more a moving target that differs from day to day. Again, this goes bakc ot the lack of vision.

AOG -

While I totally agree that the 60 airplanes will do a world of wonder for ALPA and AFA, I am not so sure that there wouldn't be benefits for other depts as well. 60 additional airplanes will need to be flown for one city to another. Perhaps it would lessen the effects of expressing some stations by providing additional point to point service. 60 additional airplanes will also need plenty of mtc support. At minimum it would increase line support needs due to all the the required checks and inevitable MEL issues. Eventually these aircraft will need heavy mtc also. It is my belief that your contract language is solid on performing that work inhouse, so there should be additional heavy tracks created to suport these airplanes.

Again, these are my views - not knowing what the work rule changes are. Who is to say whether it will only maintain current staffing levels or cause minor increases in staffing? No on knows.

I also agree with you 100% on the compatability of the "additional" airplanes. Any difference in the equipment that we fly now will cause extreme problems, especially for you and the mtc department. I have seen it with just minor differences in the 757's that we operate.
 
Cav -

I do agree with you that it should be up to mangement to come up with the solutions of what ails US. But we, the front line employees, also have a lot of insight into areas that are or are not working. We should have some input into the solution process too.

I honestly don't fault people for being negative, it is a tough environment ot work in. The constant beatings and negativity that come form CCY are very hard to shake off. The media and our media relations do not help one bit. I also agree that there is no support or encouragement from management. That includes middle managers on up. It seems like somewhere in this whole process, everyone lost sight of the fact that behind every number there is a person. That all definitly falls at the feet of Dave and his Senior Management Team. They have done nothing to change that.

Bottom line Cav - don't let it get to you. I know that is so easy to say and so hard to do. In all honesty, when I am feeling overwhelmed and down about what is going on......I steer away from this board and the news. Call it a regrouping. There is no way that you can read this stuff everyday and not have it effect you in some way. Continue to do your best and let the things that you can't control fall where they may.
 
MarkMyWords said:
Cav -

I do agree with you that it should be up to mangement to come up with the solutions of what ails US. But we, the front line employees, also have a lot of insight into areas that are or are not working. We should have some input into the solution process too.

I honestly don't fault people for being negative, it is a tough environment ot work in. The constant beatings and negativity that come form CCY are very hard to shake off. The media and our media relations do not help one bit. I also agree that there is no support or encouragement from management. That includes middle managers on up. It seems like somewhere in this whole process, everyone lost sight of the fact that behind every number there is a person. That all definitly falls at the feet of Dave and his Senior Management Team. They have done nothing to change that.

Bottom line Cav - don't let it get to you. I know that is so easy to say and so hard to do. In all honesty, when I am feeling overwhelmed and down about what is going on......I steer away from this board and the news. Call it a regrouping. There is no way that you can read this stuff everyday and not have it effect you in some way. Continue to do your best and let the things that you can't control fall where they may.
I couldn't have said it better.
 

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