Teamsters get new TA for Ramp

[ORDTA]

i'm not an advocate of an attendance policy, nor the process of how the UA one was achieved, but the Teamsters forced other unions to have to deal with attendance policies when they became the "Father of the Attendance Policy" by signing one at Republic. You can view it online, it's twice as bad as the IAM's and also didn't protect jobs. In fact, like the scope at Continental ramp, the scope at Republic and PSA ramp under a 'current' IBT contract is disasterous. So bad, that both PSA and Republic just contracted out all Teamsters [yes, 100%] under both teamster contracts, after boosting the pay of the Teamster pilots at Repbublic. IMO, the teamsters want to phase out the ramp at Continental and their new T/A is a strong indicator of that. Whatever the case, I agree with the other poster that this is all about dues and they have to recollect their dues monies from the organizing drives. Makes no sense otherwise. Stick a fork in the IBT! They are goosed at UA now.

The IBT refused the DPS for the Mechanics at UAL and were successful in having all of their discipline removed as well as a thank you for all their dedication and hard work.

 

[ORDTA]

what basic language are you talking about? The one where the company can contract out the entire ramp and everything or transfer the work, provided they are kind enough to let the ibt bid on the work? UA/CO is set to collectively make 1.5 billion and this contract is deplorable and profane. So profane that it is being used as fodder across the breakrooms at UA. The UA ramp contract is worth more even though it was gutted twice, than this IBT sellout just to get the dues.

Our IAM 'first contract' at US AIRWAYS had 10 holidays, 7 weeks vacation, overtime bypass, double time, part time cap, scope that actually protects work insted of having to bid on our own work, and that was with an airline that was struggling. The IBT contract will eventually fade out ramp work.

Why should anyone at UA/CO vote for the IBT? BTW, this contract is representive of only negotiating for 5 months, a sorta band aid contract at best.

You are saying that your first US Airways agreement had all of those negotiated benefits? Did you Support the IAM and Randy Canale, and those members from USA responsible for negotiating that amazing first agreement? Great job Janitor!

 

[ezchkin]

You have got to be kidding! Your not living under the point system your beloved “ND Guys” negotiated for us. It protects no jobs! The letter gives the company the unilateral right to contract out all of our PCE work. Your agreement was imposed on you by the company. Ours was negotiated by the ND. We have been waiting nearly two years for an agreement lets hope they do better for you at USA.

Your agreement was imposed on you by the company

No matter how you dice it, the ND did nothing to stop it. Did they even try to negotiate an alternative? All they did was try to pass it on as somehow Mr. Canale's fault. This being almost a year after Canale left. LOL!

lets hope they do better for you at USA

Lets also hope there will be $$ left in the kitty after the bath they took from DL, the $$ needed for mergers, not to mention $$ for the lawsuits.

 

[ezchkin]

EZ



I noticed you called IBT brothers and sisters, does that mean you are supporting the IBT, AKA the 2%ers? They pulled out of the AFL-CIO so that they could cannabilize other unions.

I don't have you confused with someone else.

Being a union supporter, I'm sure you understand the importance of contract language being more important than $. That being said, I am weighing all my options with an open mind. Currently, the IAM negotiated DPS for their members. The IBT negotiated a NO thank you to the DPS, and in exchange for their no, the company will ERASE all discipline for attendance. Current score: IBT - 1 IAM - zip

As far as pulling out of the AFL-CIO (which I hear the IAM is considering), Maybe this has something to do with it:

IAM
Most dues money goes to Grand Lodge:
47% to Grand Lodge,
33% to District
13% to Local
7% to State Affiliations

IBT
Most of dues money stays at local level:
22% to International
78% to Local

 

[famousfreddie]

Being a union supporter, I'm sure you understand the importance of contract language being more important than $. That being said, I am weighing all my options with an open mind. Currently, the IAM negotiated DPS for their members. The IBT negotiated a NO thank you to the DPS, and in exchange for their no, the company will ERASE all discipline for attendance. Current score: IBT - 1 IAM - zip

As far as pulling out of the AFL-CIO (which I hear the IAM is considering), Maybe this has something to do with it:

IAM
Most dues money goes to Grand Lodge:
47% to Grand Lodge,
33% to District
13% to Local
7% to State Affiliations

IBT
Most of dues money stays at local level:
22% to International
78% to Local

 

[famousfreddie]

EZ
you have just made my point- the IBT have done nothing, but serve themselves. Their disapline system is still cumlative and their occupational injuries still count as an occurrence.

 

[ORDTA]

EZ
you have just made my point- the IBT have done nothing, but serve themselves. Their disapline system is still cumlative and their occupational injuries still count as an occurrence.

I'm confused as to what point was made. Under the IAM 50+ years and time tested disciplinary system the ND has allowed the company to take someone who has never been disciplined and discharge them. The ND had also permitted them to jump levels of the disciplinary system. Under the ND the I time injures are no longer an occurrence we now receive discipline for being unsafe.

 

[famousfreddie]

I'm confused as to what point was made. Under the IAM 50+ years and time tested disciplinary system the ND has allowed the company to take someone who has never been disciplined and discharge them. The ND had also permitted them to jump levels of the disciplinary system. Under the ND the I time injures are no longer an occurrence we now receive discipline for being unsafe.

 

[famousfreddie]

ORDTA,

Of course you don't understand the point.

Please let me help you to understand. If you have an enquiring mind.



Do you know the history of the dependability point system?




Q: What was the first union to allow the " Point System " ?

A: The 2%ers in the year 1975.



Q: What corporation?

A: Not so fast, do your home work. But here is a clue to help you, think publishing. 13days and terminated.


The 2%ers have a long history of short selling its membership and have not furthered the labor movement one inch.


I am a Machinists, will always be a Machinist. ND has done one hell of a job. Unlike a few people, my loyality doesn't go to the lowest bidder ie. 2%ers. Nor do I shop at Wally World. I equate the 2%ers as the Wally of unions. Promises of cheap dues, inferior contracts, outsourcing of jobs oversees..................I could go on. But why? I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. Most people are going to see through the IBT propaganda by just reading the first few pages of the TA at CAL.

Let see if you can find the answer, post it so everyone can see it. This will prove you are serious about learning about labor history rather than just passing on 2%er's propaganda.

 

[ORDTA]

ORDTA,

Of course you don't understand the point.

Please let me help you to understand. If you have an enquiring mind.



Do you know the history of the dependability point system?




Q: What was the first union to allow the " Point System " ?

A: The 2%ers in the year 1975.



Q: What corporation?

A: Not so fast, do your home work. But here is a clue to help you, think publishing. 13days and terminated.


The 2%ers have a long history of short selling its membership and have not furthered the labor movement one inch.


I am a Machinists, will always be a Machinist. ND has done one hell of a job. Unlike a few people, my loyality doesn't go to the lowest bidder ie. 2%ers. Nor do I shop at Wally World. I equate the 2%ers as the Wally of unions. Promises of cheap dues, inferior contracts, outsourcing of jobs oversees..................I could go on. But why? I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. Most people are going to see through the IBT propaganda by just reading the first few pages of the TA at CAL.

Let see if you can find the answer, post it so everyone can see it. This will prove you are serious about learning about labor history rather than just passing on 2%er's propaganda.

You didn't respond:
I'm confused as to what point was made. Under the IAM 50+ years and time tested disciplinary system the ND has allowed the company to take someone who has never been disciplined and discharge them. The ND had also permitted them to jump levels of the disciplinary system. Under the ND the I time injures are no longer an occurrence we now receive discipline for being unsafe.

I don't need your help to understand.
The history of the DPS at UAL is that the new direction negotiated it and sold out the PCE group the company can now contract out all of our jobs as long as they inform the union first.

I don't care what the IBT did in 1975 the IAM just followed their lead in 2010.

The new direction only history is 3 years and in those three years not only have they had a history of selling the members short they have a history of selling them out.

Your loyalty has already gone to the lowest bidder, they have been running around informing members they can't do better than the IBT.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who has the best contract at this time. The representation and the communication from the IAM has little to offer it's members.

 

[ORDTA]

You didn't respond:
I'm confused as to what point was made. Under the IAM 50+ years and time tested disciplinary system the ND has allowed the company to take someone who has never been disciplined and discharge them. The ND had also permitted them to jump levels of the disciplinary system. Under the ND the I time injures are no longer an occurrence we now receive discipline for being unsafe.

I don't need your help to understand.
The history of the DPS at UAL is that the new direction negotiated it and sold out the PCE group the company can now contract out all of our jobs as long as they inform the union first.

I don't care what the IBT did in 1975 the IAM just followed their lead in 2010.

The new direction only history is 3 years and in those three years not only have they had a history of selling the members short they have a history of selling them out.

Your loyalty has already gone to the lowest bidder, they have been running around informing members they can't do better than the IBT.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who has the best contract at this time. The representation and the communication from the IAM has little to offer it's members.

Why would you assume I'm passing on the IBT's "propaganda? And if they are the 2%ers that must make us the -15%ers!

 

[famousfreddie]

ORDTA, or is it EZ?

Like I wrote before you are not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. You would like others that read this to think that you are a neutral searching for options to weigh, when in fact you are a willing 2%er. You are putting your fate and others in the hands of people that eye you like a lamb at easter dinner. They will sacrifice your job, pay and benefits to increase theirs.

Lets recap the 2%ers TA for the Fleet (not in the mechanics agreement the 2%ers ratified because they knew fleet would pick up the tab)

No Scope outsource or move work to another classification, can furlough after 2011

No Hours of Service Split Shifts, Ready Reserves

No OT Bypass Pay Get a chance the next time overtime is assigned

No Vacation 5 weeks max

Shall I go on? I don't think so.


Now Let's recap the 2%ers organization

President Daddy's Boy Family Business

Aviation department All pilots ( most dubious the one that caused your summer from hell )

Business Agents Appointed by Daddy's Boy, not elected

No political juice pulled out of state and national AFL-CIO

Pension funds may be in trouble, depends who is doing the accounting.

Shall I go on? OK, if you insist.

Locals have to pay for everything, International just collects a franchise fee to use the name, ie. arbitration, business agents that are appointed. Eureka I found your angle! You can't win an election, so you think the 2%ers will appoint you to something. Unless you hold a pilot's license, it ain't gonna happen with the 2%ers.

ORDTA I've admitted I am a Machinist, why can't you just admit you are a wannabe 2%er ? Quit pretending to be an option weigher when its obvious you support the 2%ers. The only one you are fooling is yourself. Come on, just admit it, you will feel better.

 

[famousfreddie]

Of course you don't care about 1975. You just want to live in the present and are too lazy to do fully reseach the issue. But those that are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. Like going with the 2%ers. If you did the research you would see that the employees decertified them and moved to another union. Would you like to know which union they chose to replace the 2%ers?

 

[ezchkin]

ORDTA, or is it EZ?
Like I wrote before you are not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

This is EZ. I'm not responding because like you said, we're not going to change each others mind. But more important is that it's not about what you or I think. This thread is about my new UA co-workers TA. I respect your opinion but I also respect what the CAL fleet decide to vote on. I realize the employees of USA are still trying to merge your groups with friction still between you. We're going to avoid that route. Waiting till next year to see which union representation prevails. Good luck to you!

EZ

 

[ezchkin]

What jobs did they save? Doesn't the IAM web site say that they have to mediate their cases now though the NMB and now the NMB doesn't have anyone to mediate them? It's been almost three years for some. Why can't they arbitrate them like the previous AGC's?

Because they don't know how? They still in training for step 3's!