Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[BoeingBoy]

But that still leaves 1300 active gone in the next 10 years.

And that is how many jobs well be left behind, not the 2000+ you implied before. With some of them being fo jobs. IOW, the bottom east pilots on the East list will still be fo's in 10 years even if no west pilots bid east.

Now take your DOH list. The day it's implemented few west fo's would make captain in that same 10 years. Despite all the talk of no eastie wanting anything the westies have, how many east reserve 737/320 fo's would jump at a chance to be a 320/757 captain in PHX for an extra $60K/year? How many east mid-level blockholder 737/320 fo's would jump at that chance? Enough to keep nearly all west fo's where they are now for 10 years.

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

And that is how many jobs well be left behind, not the 2000+ you implied before. With some of them being fo jobs. IOW, the bottom east pilots on the East list will still be fo's in 10 years even if no west pilots bid east.

Now take your DOH list. The day it's implemented few west fo's would make captain in that same 10 years. Despite all the talk of no eastie wanting anything the westies have, how many east reserve 737/320 fo's would jump at a chance to be a 320/757 captain in PHX? How many east mid-level blockholder 737/320 fo's would jump at that chance? Enough to keep nearly all west fo's where they are now for 10 years.

Jim

No where have I ever suggested a straight DOH list.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Must have been at my kids baseball game or something!

Some baseball game - must have been 10,000 innings or more. The site selection process went on for months, another 18 months or so for construction, then the grand opening. But if you think I'm a westie, maybe you weren't working here at that time. 2007-2008 new hire?

Jim

 

[Toothy Grin]

So I jumped into this thread to catch up on something called an injunction and I'm reading about things that I believe belong on the pilot thread and/or in a toilet.

What is the latest news concerning the injunction that us filed against usapa?

 

[Keroseneuser]

2007-2008 new hire?

Jim

Sadly no. But I kinda wish I was, would mean my knees would probably not crack and pop as much if I were young enough to be an 07 08 newhire! 🙂

 

[BoeingBoy]

No where have I ever suggested a straight DOH list.

That's USAPA preference since the C&R's they offer are so weak. It's that or the Nic unless USAPA/Cleary have a change of heart - what are the chances of that. BTW, you can thank USAPA for ensuring that those are the two choices. You don't want the Nic, so what's left?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Sadly no. But I kinda wish I was, would mean my knees would probably not crack and pop as much if I were young enough to be an 07 08 newhire! 🙂

You need to take better care of yourself. If you're still working you're too young for that kind of thing.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

So I jumped into this thread to catch up on something called an injunction and I'm reading about things that I believe belong on the pilot thread and/or in a toilet.

What is the latest news concerning the injunction that us filed against usapa?

Nothing new, still waiting on the judge to rule.

 

[Keroseneuser]

That's USAPA preference since the C&R's they offer are so weak. It's that or the Nic unless USAPA/Cleary have a change of heart - what are the chances of that. BTW, you can thank USAPA for ensuring that those are the two choices. You don't want the Nic, so what's left?

Jim

Back when this mess all started I remember chatting with a few other guys about how we hoped this would not get as messy as the Piedmont/Usair one did. Truthfully most I spoke with figured we(USAir/AWA) would come up with something that approximated allegheny/mohawk or other fence type agreement and get on with life. I dont think most expected the MEC to jump on and hold on to the DOH thing quite like they did given the vast age difference between the two airlines.

So no I don't think DOH was a valid end agreement. But now we have the opposite, we have guys hired in 1986 that have never sat a single day on furlough junior to a guy hired in 2000. On the day the 1986 guy got hired, the guy one number senior to him on NIC was busy in 9th grade english class.

Mainly I got into this thread to see how receptive people would be to some kind of compromise so we don't end up being Eastern (gone) or Pan-Am (parted out). I am telling you guys with all the effort I can from what I see daily on the line this place will implode if we keep the DOH only or NIC only thing going. neither side is going to do it and the drawn out court battle will do nothing but have us headed for the resume file.

I am willing to look at options to figure this mess out, many east guys seem to feel the same way. And several of my friends from the west that I have seen feel the same way. But I think we are in the minority, the burn it down crowd from the east and west have too much of a head of steam up to be cooled off I am afraid.

 

[Keroseneuser]

You need to take better care of yourself. If you're still working you're too young for that kind of thing.

Jim

Nah, too much motocross and other high impact sports as a young man. Knees work good, but my days of sneaking up on somebody using stealth are gone...if it involves a flight of stairs!! 🙂 Work good last long time...just grinds when going into gear!

 

[luvn737s]

I am telling you guys with all the effort I can from what I see daily on the line this place will implode if we keep the DOH only or NIC only thing going.

There is only one side with the leverage to solve this problem and they (you) choose not to. USAPA needs to be honest with its members about the true effect of the Nicolau award and then put out a contract to vote on that includes it. If it fails miserably (and polls are taken to prove it was solely the fault of the Nic) then there may be justification for some changes in the contract including the possibility of some modification of the Nicolau list.

But allowing USAPA to choose sides AND charge the people it is damaging through its tactics is grounds for a damages-laden DFR.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A pretty reasonable synopsis, with only a few omissions - like the DOH petitions that pushed the MEC into taking their DOH stance. Someone else has already said why your wish is propably never going to happen - there's nobody on the west side empowered to negotiate anything for them. That's not for a lack of someone to do it, it's the NMB's single carrier decision that made USAPA the only bargaining agent for all US pilots. But even if there was some group of westies willing to negotiate a compromise, before it went any further than a piece of paper USAPA would have to approve it - what are those chances? Then finally, even with union blessing it would only take a few from either side to file a DFR suit and you're right back to where you are now.

So unfortunately, you're stuck with either Nic or DOH unless the DJ (and the following appeal by the losing side) ends with a different result.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Work good last long time...just grinds when going into gear!

Just make sure that grinding doesn't result in chunks in the case...although I guess "gear" replacement is a pretty routine operation these days.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Back when this mess all started I remember chatting with a few other guys about how we hoped this would not get as messy as the Piedmont/Usair one did. Truthfully most I spoke with figured we(USAir/AWA) would come up with something that approximated allegheny/mohawk or other fence type agreement and get on with life. I dont think most expected the MEC to jump on and hold on to the DOH thing quite like they did given the vast age difference between the two airlines.

So no I don't think DOH was a valid end agreement. But now we have the opposite, we have guys hired in 1986 that have never sat a single day on furlough junior to a guy hired in 2000. On the day the 1986 guy got hired, the guy one number senior to him on NIC was busy in 9th grade english class.

Mainly I got into this thread to see how receptive people would be to some kind of compromise so we don't end up being Eastern (gone) or Pan-Am (parted out). I am telling you guys with all the effort I can from what I see daily on the line this place will implode if we keep the DOH only or NIC only thing going. neither side is going to do it and the drawn out court battle will do nothing but have us headed for the resume file.

I am willing to look at options to figure this mess out, many east guys seem to feel the same way. And several of my friends from the west that I have seen feel the same way. But I think we are in the minority, the burn it down crowd from the east and west have too much of a head of steam up to be cooled off I am afraid.

Great post and good intentions but all you are going to get for your trouble is a lecture on how the NIC is it or nothing and all East pilots are scum because we won't roll over on it. But I'm with you.

Driver B)

 

[Claxon]

First off, did you quantify QoL improvements as well?

And who said anything about Kirby. You guys swallow the Nic, put some west guys at the table who actually know how to negotiate, and we'll move past Kirby together.

Why do you set your sites so low? Has LOA93 f'ed up your expectations up that badly?

Franke Air disciple, are you really that clueless to believe any eastern div pilot would ever trust your group after all the back stabbing? You are the most clueless and obviously unemployed of all. You will never combine with eastern pilots. Your group can never be trusted and thankfully you demonstrated that clearly. Forewarned is forearmed.