Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[BoeingBoy]

Could you clarify what the end result of the Declaratory Judgment would be? As I read it, it can be compared to being told how each chess piece can be allowed to move, but it doesn't determine whether white or black wins. So once the judge states what USAPA's and Parkers obligations are, how does that translate into any action other than the current inaction?

My layman's mind figures that the company requested one of 3 rulings and the judge will pick one of 4:

1 - The company must use the Nic with immunity from legal liability
2 - The company can "negotiate" a different combined list with USAPA (capitulate to USAPA's demand) without legal liability
3 - The company is free of all liability no matter which they do
(Those are the three options the company listed)
4 - The company has to negotiate with no immunity for any law suits that follow ratification (i.e., the judges "out" and current situation)

#1 and the court has told them they have to use the Nic and given them immunity from legal action by the East. Unless released by the NMB, USAPA and the East don't have the "nuclear option" of a job action/strike but ratifying a contract could take a long time. West and the company win, but the end isn't close.

#2 and the court has told them to take USAPA's DOH list without risk of being subject to a West hybrid suit. A West DFR suit against the union is still on the table after ratification. The company wins, USAPA wins the battle but could lose the war in the inevitable DFR suit. So no integrated ops anytime soon.

#3 and the company has to decide what they'll accept, but know they have immunity whichever way they go. I have no inside info on which path they'd choose. The company wins, one pilot group wins the battle but USAPA could still lose the war in a DFR suit. No integrated ops in the near future.

#4 means the ball is back in the company's court - nobody wins the battle. The company has to decide which way to go without immunity (which threat is greater - West suit or East suit/work action) and face the prospect of 2 or more years of lawsuits following ratification of a joint contract no matter which way they go. Yet again, no integrated ops anytime soon.

In short, the company can be the only real winner in the DJ - they'll have immunity if the court picks any of the 1st three options. For East and West it's business as usual if you look at the big picture - ultimately the issue will end up back in court to be settled unless the court picks #1.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

But what makes you think the east pilots will ever begin to behave rationally, regardless of what they are told?

100% of them - probably not. But just look at the East pilots here - 25-33% are pretty rational and basically seem willing to accept whatever the ultimate decision is. I suspect, without knowing, that in the general East pilot population the percentage is even higher. They'll fight the battle till the final decision, then go on with their lives. There's no such thing as a trouble-free pilot integration, at least that I've seen in over 3 decades. Pilots on one side or the other always feel that they got a raw deal, usually because way too many don't think about what's fair but rather what's in their best interests. The only difference here is that Bradford and a few others channeled that feeling that the East got a raw deal for the previous 6 or 7 years and with Seham's willingness to say what they wanted to hear ran the merger train off the tracks.

Jim

 

[767one]

Uh oh easties, looks like the hammer is coming down hard. Time to put away those yellow highlighters. Check it out--------------->


Robert Isom has been appointed to the point of the spear in dealing with the "situation". I am told he has taken to the task like a duck to water, approaching this issue with "energetic zeal". Just today, an e-mail was sent to ALL CHP's company wide indicating some displeasure with the "compliance" factor on these lanyards and other related stuff. In that e-mail it was clearly implied that IF compliance is not achieved...rapidly, changes will indeed be made until somebody can get the desired result.

From August 1st until the 30th, there are 413 documented (heavily detailed documentation including crew names) occurrences of "purposeful slowdown" and irregular ops such as flight control checks in the alley, and time to transmit to ground. Some are very long.

There is currently a list with over 200 names of those who have either already had or will have a discipline hearing...some have been recommended for termination, some 7 days off without pay, and some with a warning letter. Currently CLT and PHL are having as many as 12 disciplinary hearings.....A DAY...each.

Armed with an injunction (and supposedly fines) Parker can and will clean house. The brooms have been issued. Additionally I expect that after LOA93 decision is released, more will fall on their sword. Parker will get the NMB to allow a cram-down, and the rebuilding will begin.

If anybody thinks that the company is not serious about this ....I would politely suggest you could not be more mistaken. 😱

I'm surprised that I have heard nothing of these hearings and time off. I would think that this would be a major topic of conversation in the crew rooms. So far all I've heard about were the 2 firings for distance learning. Since you have such a good source maybe you would be kind enough to post the list. Then again maybe those given time off are just enjoying their time off.

Bob

 

[Move2CLT]

I was told I could not publish the list.

 

[Pi brat]

I was told I could not publish the list.

Here's a better question, why do you have the list? Is Tempe that leaky, or are you that full of XXXX?

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Here's a better question, why do you have the list? Is Tempe that leaky, or are you that full of XXXX?

BOTH

 

[luvn737s]

100% of them - probably not. But just look at the East pilots here - 25-33% are pretty rational and basically seem willing to accept whatever the ultimate decision is.

I'm not sure the keyboard brigade here at AF is an accurate bellwether of the east. But the actions of the east, or I should say inaction, towards everything Cleary has pulled, are very telling. The message is loud and clear to stay the course and more of the same.

Rationality - Delayed and possibly CXLD.

 

[cactusboy53]

Apollo/Claxon.

Yawn again.

Wouldn't it be more like: Apollo/ Claxon / Sumadarson / Nostradamus ? Sum / Nos has a proclivity of posting articles / cartoons (after renaming them to something cute). Unfortunately the articles and cartoons are usually well over a decade old.

 

[Pi brat]

Rationality - Delayed and possibly CXLD.

The arrogance of pilots is astounding. That is YOUR rationality. Some easties can not believe the lack of west rationality. The SW pilots cannot see why the AT pilots aren't rational and just accept their grand offer. The AT pilots cannot believe the SW pilots are irrational enough to make the offer.

There is not one east group, just like there is not one west group. The way I see it we have east pilots that are fed up with USAPA and the entire way they have handled things. We have east pilots that don't like how USAPA has handled certain things, but don't care as long as the Nic is held at bay. We have east pilots that don't like the Nic, but think the road we went down is wrong and would like to reach another solutions. And probably a lot of other sub groups, BUT I'm beginning to believe the biggest is the "I absolutely do not care, the whole bunch is so screwed up I'm just going to accept the food fight and ride this thing until it dies" group.

I think that absent an outside event our fate is cast. For the next 3-5 years we keep the fleet numbers we have, if you can move up due to attrition you will, we will see no raises, and a big chunk of money will go to the legal system. Hopefully when it's all done there will be something left and we can go on with our careers. If you don't like that path you might want to see other employment opportunities.

That and, just like a soap opera, this "you suck, no you suck" will continue as it has for the last 5 years.

Rant out.

 

[No Land Green]

The arrogance of pilots is astounding. That is YOUR rationality. Some easties can not believe the lack of west rationality. The SW pilots cannot see why the AT pilots aren't rational and just accept their grand offer. The AT pilots cannot believe the SW pilots are irrational enough to make the offer.

There is not one east group, just like there is not one west group. The way I see it we have east pilots that are fed up with USAPA and the entire way they have handled things. We have east pilots that don't like how USAPA has handled certain things, but don't care as long as the Nic is held at bay. We have east pilots that don't like the Nic, but think the road we went down is wrong and would like to reach another solutions. And probably a lot of other sub groups, BUT I'm beginning to believe the biggest is the "I absolutely do not care, the whole bunch is so screwed up I'm just going to accept the food fight and ride this thing until it dies" group.

I think that absent an outside event our fate is cast. For the next 3-5 years we keep the fleet numbers we have, if you can move up due to attrition you will, we will see no raises, and a big chunk of money will go to the legal system. Hopefully when it's all done there will be something left and we can go on with our careers. If you don't like that path you might want to see other employment opportunities.

That and, just like a soap opera, this "you suck, no you suck" will continue as it has for the last 5 years.

Rant out.

Good summation Brat!!!

 

[luvn737s]

The arrogance of pilots is astounding. That is YOUR rationality. Some easties can not believe the lack of west rationality.

No, the west understands that had Nicolau acquiesced to their demands and given them DOH, the east would have endorsed the process as a great victory and paid to have the next A330 delivered christened the Spirit of Alpa!

But no, since Nicolau chose a different solution, you use your superior numbers to trash the process and assume squatters rights over the entire integration.

I think virtually every other group would see this for the irrationality that it is.

 

[Pi brat]

No, the west understands that had Nicolau acquiesced to their demands and given them DOH, the east would have endorsed the process as a great victory and paid to have the next A330 delivered christened the Spirit of Alpa!

But no, since Nicolau chose a different solution, you use your superior numbers to trash the process and assume squatters rights over the entire integration.

I think virtually every other group would see this for the irrationality that it is.

Still your "irrationality". For the ones that are happier with LOA 93, and no Nic than they would be with the Nic and whatever contract we could get out of the company, it's not irrational at all. Many east pilots see the west as irrational by holding up the whole process just to get the Nic when you will inherit the entire company one day anyway as irrational. I don't, I see it as the majority making what they see as the best decision for them. It really doesn't matter what any other group thinks, just like my opinion of SW/AT doesn't matter.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I see it as the majority making what they see as the best decision for them.

Now that's the most honest statement you've made in a long time.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Now that's the most honest statement you've made in a long time.

Jim

Let me reply to that in a Boeing Boyesque way. This this first time I've been honest? Now you are calling me a liar for every other post I've made?

I've always been honest. Just because you don't like what I say doesn't mean I'm lying. Now...if you were to say it was the first time that you thought I was right, then that would be your opinion.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Take a deep breath, read, take a couple more deep breaths, then re-read slowly. Who knows, maybe the light will come on...and that blood pressure will come down...

Jim