Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[CallawayGolf]

The company puts SAFETY FIRST all over the place. Apparently East pilots from what I see were stupidly carrying maintenance items for the company. They realized it was a foolhardy behavior, and the risk was on the pilots. Why assume unnecessary risk for anyone, and it actually rewards those who choose to attack your group. So draw your baseline right there. It had to start somewhere, so that is where it started. May. I saw the numbers of items that were written up out of base versus in base, and so did the FAA. That fact was made available, and pilots are now adhering to the FAR s as well as the FOM. The East pilots were very smart being especially careful in CLT. That place is extremely dangerous at the tips of the concourses. I would suggest the company use their technology to pursue the fast taxiing aircraft versus the safer, slower traffic being careful. If you have a problem with this, it is just too bad.
By the way, since Aquaman made the bold revelations that a secret witness was going to blow the doors off USAPA Monday, where is the "secret witness testimony?" Have you guys out west figured out that the founders of Leonidas are just taking your hard earned money and delivering nothing? Aqua has made some bold predictions, none that came true.

But it can't start during status quo conditions per the RLA. Therefore you just admitted east pilots and USAPA violated status quo in May just as the Company's court filings and testimony before judge Conrad claim. I guess ruling in the Company's favor will be a very obvious decision for him since even USAPA hard line supporters admit that May was the starting point for these illegal job actions.

 

[nycbusdriver]

if its worse now just wait til hurricane irene comes up the coast this week and the chesapeake bay if it stays on track

I heard Cleary and pals have taken a page from the Pat Robertson playbook and are praying for Irene to impact CLT airport and cause more delays for the airline. Parker is refiling with Judge Conrad as we speak over this blatant attempt by USAPA to cause even more inconvenience to the passengers to which Tempe shows such care and deference.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I heard Cleary and pals have taken a page from the Pat Robertson playbook and are praying for Irene to impact CLT airport and cause more delays for the airline. Parker is refiling with Judge Conrad as we speak over this blatant attempt by USAPA to cause even more inconvenience to the passengers to which Tempe shows such care and deference.

I guess you think that violating federal law and disrupting tens of thousands of innocent passengers and costing the airline millions of dollars is a joking matter. I seriously doubt that judge Conrad will be amused in the same way as you. I wonder what your jocular attitude will be if you have to live under a federal injunction and also have to pay the company back for this illegal behavior by way of fines and east pilot assessments?

 

[goneflyin]

Apparently East pilots from what I see were stupidly carrying maintenance items for the company. They realized it was a foolhardy behavior, and the risk was on the pilots.

That would be not only stupid and foolhardy; it would be in violation of the FARs. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that your east compatriots are not breaking the law now, but they had been previously. That's not much better.

 

[AWE_SHUCKS]

For once try reading some court documents.

I have to admit. You east pilots are better at something than any other group of people that I have ever been around. Finding excuses!!! It is never your fault and you always have an excuse to explain poor and illegal behavior.

Have you de-iced in May, June or July? Running out of de-ice fluid would make your numbers look better because that was part of the base line. Did all of a sudden the 737 start breaking in the last 3 months? Years of baseline data. The regionals BASE LINE has remained constant. East operations BASE LINE has fallen off a cliff. What don't you guys understand about this?

Oh that's right. EXCUSES!!!!! Nothing but excuses.

you seem like an honest forthcoming fellow, could you please answer these direct question honestly. Your on your last out and back of a four day, commuting crewmembers with tight connections, and you land at a place with contract maintenance, you notice the glass covering the rudder trim readout is cracked, or say a visor keeps falling and wont stay up. now before you provide an evasive answer, pick any defect which will not compromise safety but needs to be written up and is definitely going to delay you outbound substantially. Do you write it up there or carry it back to PHX? If you carry it, can you please tell me how that is not a violation, and if you write it up, is that a job action? Please answer this... if east pilots were in violation for carrying these types of defects in the past, and then after being urged by usapa to adhere to the regulations, and they now no longer carry these defects, is that a status quo violation?

There seems to be alot of accusations about a slowdown, I'm saying that everyone carrys certain non critical writeups to lessen the impact on their rest period, commute , meal break or whatever, and that is illegal , so now we are being legal and you don't like that. If you can't be honest, and all you got is some more self righteous bs, then don't waste your breath.

 

[700UW]

And the City of Charlotte and the Airport are in charge of deicing and maintaining the fluid levels, so try again.

 

[usfliboi]

you seem like an honest forthcoming fellow, could you please answer these direct question honestly. Your on your last out and back of a four day, commuting crewmembers with tight connections, and you land at a place with contract maintenance, you notice the glass covering the rudder trim readout is cracked, or say a visor keeps falling and wont stay up. now before you provide an evasive answer, pick any defect which will not compromise safety but needs to be written up and is definitely going to delay you outbound substantially. Do you write it up there or carry it back to PHX? If you carry it, can you please tell me how that is not a violation, and if you write it up, is that a job action? Please answer this... if east pilots were in violation for carrying these types of defects in the past, and then after being urged by usapa to adhere to the regulations, and they now no longer carry these defects, is that a status quo violation?

There seems to be alot of accusations about a slowdown, I'm saying that everyone carrys certain non critical writeups to lessen the impact on their rest period, commute , meal break or whatever, and that is illegal , so now we are being legal and you don't like that. If you can't be honest, and all you got is some more self righteous bs, then don't waste your breath.

What has happened ? Pilots want us to believe that for years they have flown unsafe aircraft and now they have had a change of heart and want to be safe? Please ......the few that are doing this have broken a trust with management, co workers and customers. The damage done is far greater than anyone can imagine. No matter what happens..the respect and trust I had for Pilots has been tainted if not broken... because of the actions of a few! There will be a long long process of repairing the damage this union has caused. MC needs to be charged with perjury and sent to jail for his response on the stand! Those pilots (Not on Board) needs to speak up about what has happened before it damages all of our careers permantley!

It is time for this to end. The union needs to resolve the senority dispute so we can all go back to enjoying the workplace we deserve. More importantly....for the passengers who pay our salary!!!

 

[cleardirect]

you seem like an honest forthcoming fellow, could you please answer these direct question honestly. Your on your last out and back of a four day, commuting crewmembers with tight connections, and you land at a place with contract maintenance, you notice the glass covering the rudder trim readout is cracked, or say a visor keeps falling and wont stay up. now before you provide an evasive answer, pick any defect which will not compromise safety but needs to be written up and is definitely going to delay you outbound substantially. Do you write it up there or carry it back to PHX? If you carry it, can you please tell me how that is not a violation, and if you write it up, is that a job action? Please answer this... if east pilots were in violation for carrying these types of defects in the past, and then after being urged by usapa to adhere to the regulations, and they now no longer carry these defects, is that a status quo violation?

There seems to be alot of accusations about a slowdown, I'm saying that everyone carrys certain non critical writeups to lessen the impact on their rest period, commute , meal break or whatever, and that is illegal , so now we are being legal and you don't like that. If you can't be honest, and all you got is some more self righteous bs, then don't waste your breath.

All of us have “carried” items back to base for whatever reason. Your examples, nav light out, tray table falling down whatever. Is it a violation sure. Is it a judgment call, maybe. We all know what is and what is not a safety of flight issue. To be honest if we were to follow every FAA reg and company rule to the letter no aircraft would ever leave the ground. So we all find that place where we are comfortable and launch.

Have you east guys been violating the letter of the law? Probably. But by changing your past practice it violates a different law. RLA status quo. If you have been carrying minor MX issues than you have to continue to carry minor MX issues. But the company has not accused the east pilots of only making extra write ups. It is fatigue calls, taxi times and others. If only one variable changed the company would not have much of a case. But multiple variables cannot be explained by we are doing to right now. Add to that some of the more obvious updates from the union encouraging that action. Hard to deny.

The union has also filed a status quo law suit because they say the company has changed the way they do business. Would you accept the answer that the company has been doing it wrong for the last few years but we are doing it right now. Sure the grievance process gets slowed down but we are following all the rules now.

An honest answer from you now. If we got a contract tomorrow would all of these MX write-ups continue or would it go back to the normal baseline way of doing things prior to May 2011?

 

[CallawayGolf]

East pilots keep twisting themselves into knots that cannot be logically resolved.

So the latest line of reasoning (excuses) is that the east pilots had been flying illegally in violation of the FARs for years because they either wanted to not be personally inconvenienced or because they were good company pilots who didn't want to disrupt operations. But then suddenly USAPA became concerned enough about their pilots' illegal actions (east only, yellow lanyards and such) that they began a campaign to discourage pilots from continued violations of federal aviation laws and return to strictly legal performance of their responsibilities? I see; so the east pilots were the ones putting lives at risk and it was their behavior USAPA wanted to correct via the safety first campaign, not the company's. In their infinite wisdom, USAPA somehow understood that west pilots did not need these kinds of encouragements to follow the FARs so no attention was given to the west pilots who were already operating per the FARs. It was just those rogue east pilots that needed to be handed a yellow lanyard to remind them not to violate the law or continue putting lives at risk.

Logically then, the safety survey and the demand to have the VP of safety fired was all done as a diversion from the real problem at hand - east pilots flying in violation of federal law. Got it. Oh, but then USAPA's concern for safety (i.e. getting east pilots to follow the law) was so short-sighted that they failed to realize that such a dramatic swing in write-ups, delays, slower taxi times and the like - all in the name of safety - would result in a violation of the RLA status quo requirements. That's quite a pickle USAPA, and the east pilots who apparently had a long history of violating the law, have gotten themselves into by their very poor decision making and cognitive reasoning abilities. Well, I guess if that is truly the case (I don't believe it for a second), then I suppose violating the status quo is preferable to violating the FARs. As a result of this history of poor east pilot decision making, east pilots can now contribute the the financial losses they are creating by taking some of their LOA93 wages and funneling them back to the company to make amends for their years of flying in violation of federal law.

The poor victimized east pilots; what will their bad fortunes bring them next?

 

[PullUp]

What has happened ? Pilots want us to believe that for years they have flown unsafe aircraft and now they have had a change of heart and want to be safe? Please ......the few that are doing this have broken a trust with management, co workers and customers. The damage done is far greater than anyone can imagine. No matter what happens..the respect and trust I had for Pilots has been tainted if not broken... because of the actions of a few! There will be a long long process of repairing the damage this union has caused. MC needs to be charged with perjury and sent to jail for his response on the stand! Those pilots (Not on Board) needs to speak up about what has happened before it damages all of our careers permantley!

It is time for this to end. The union needs to resolve the senority dispute so we can all go back to enjoying the workplace we deserve. More importantly....for the passengers who pay our salary!!!

Take a deep breath and exhale. Repeat.
Now, don't talk about trust and management in the same sentence - ever.
The 'long process of repair' should begin with the broken aircraft.
And "permantley!" is spelled permanently.
Cheers.

 

[Black Swan]

And the City of Charlotte and the Airport are in charge of deicing and maintaining the fluid levels, so try again.

Maybe you should return to the company. Because the last time I deiced, it said USAirways on the truck. And even if the City is responsible, someone from USAirways should know enough to ensure they did their job. So if those people driving the USAirways trucks were on the ball, they would know when the fluid would be running out when they went to the supply. Those tanks do have gauges on them.That is, unless they felt they had had enough of Team Tempe.

 

[A320 Driver]

The union needs to resolve the senority dispute so we can all go back to enjoying the workplace we deserve. More importantly....for the passengers who pay our salary!!!

What do you have in mind? I'm listening.

Driver

 

[Phoenix]

I have to admit. You east pilots are better at something than any other group of people that I have ever been around. Finding excuses!!! It is never your fault and you always have an excuse to explain poor and illegal behavior....

"poor and illegal behavior." 🙄

Do you realize you have never met another pilot group that is more consistent than you at siding with management at assuming all a pilot's group actions are illegal?

I jump all the time with West crews and all but the youngest F/Os are very polite guys.

 

[Move2CLT]

you seem like an honest forthcoming fellow, could you please answer these direct question honestly. Your on your last out and back of a four day, commuting crewmembers with tight connections, and you land at a place with contract maintenance, you notice the glass covering the rudder trim readout is cracked, or say a visor keeps falling and wont stay up. now before you provide an evasive answer, pick any defect which will not compromise safety but needs to be written up and is definitely going to delay you outbound substantially. Do you write it up there or carry it back to PHX? If you carry it, can you please tell me how that is not a violation, and if you write it up, is that a job action? Please answer this... if east pilots were in violation for carrying these types of defects in the past, and then after being urged by usapa to adhere to the regulations, and they now no longer carry these defects, is that a status quo violation?

There seems to be alot of accusations about a slowdown, I'm saying that everyone carrys certain non critical writeups to lessen the impact on their rest period, commute , meal break or whatever, and that is illegal , so now we are being legal and you don't like that. If you can't be honest, and all you got is some more self righteous bs, then don't waste your breath.

I wasted my time reading that. Damn it. Could you plea preface your post with STUPID ARGUMENT so that I know to skip it.

 

[Black Swan]

All of us have “carried” items back to base for whatever reason. Your examples, nav light out, tray table falling down whatever. Is it a violation sure. Is it a judgment call, maybe. We all know what is and what is not a safety of flight issue. To be honest if we were to follow every FAA reg and company rule to the letter no aircraft would ever leave the ground. So we all find that place where we are comfortable and launch.

Have you east guys been violating the letter of the law? Probably. But by changing your past practice it violates a different law. RLA status quo. If you have been carrying minor MX issues than you have to continue to carry minor MX issues. But the company has not accused the east pilots of only making extra write ups. It is fatigue calls, taxi times and others. If only one variable changed the company would not have much of a case. But multiple variables cannot be explained by we are doing to right now. Add to that some of the more obvious updates from the union encouraging that action. Hard to deny.

The union has also filed a status quo law suit because they say the company has changed the way they do business. Would you accept the answer that the company has been doing it wrong for the last few years but we are doing it right now. Sure the grievance process gets slowed down but we are following all the rules now.

An honest answer from you now. If we got a contract tomorrow would all of these MX write-ups continue or would it go back to the normal baseline way of doing things prior to May 2011?

You have admitted you carry maintenance items, and this is a violation of FAR's. You continue to back the company, when the East pilots simply abide by FAR's. You are correct in one thing, without the cooperation of pilots flying the airplanes, and our mechanics- the entire fleet could quite possibly not ever make it to the runway. So if the East pilots have in the past carried items, and they decided they were no longer willing to assume the risk of that same, they are taking the correct action. It is the airline and the West pilots who have chosen to break the law. It is not our problem if you have issues with this, and you should consider stopping your illegal activity. Why don't you run your statement "you have to continue carrying minor MX items" by the FAA. This is clearly the stupidest thing ever written on this forum.