Temporary Injunction against USAPA filed today

[nycbusdriver]

I am so glad that your so mature to post such a great post like above.

Amazed that your a Capt and responsible for passengers' lives, simply amazing.

Ooh. That hurt, since I so respect your opinion.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Ooh. That hurt, since I so respect your opinion.

I respect his opinion so much he's on ignore 😀

 

[700UW]

Yet Harry this is the third or fourth post today you said about not reading me and having me on ignore, sounds like your a bit preoccupied by me.

 

[dariencc]

Working by the book was done during the 30 day cooling off period, when it expired we stayed at work and kept negotiating for another week, then went on strike after voting down one cba.

Since you're a big proponent of not letting facts get in the way, maybe you're ready to acknowledge the following facts.

During the cooling off, there were numerous incidents of vandalism of company aircraft. In several cases, individuals were caught red handed.

A friend of mine who was a DC9 F/O at the time got involved as a witness in one case. He walked onboard an aircraft and saw a mechanic, on his knees in the aisle, ripping out the wiring for the floor track emergency lighting. Suffice to say, there was no maintenance scheduled on that system. The mechenic bolted off the aircraft but my friend followed him and got his name. Later, he was extremely angry as the case against the mechanic/criminal was dropped at the last minute as part of the contract settlement.

Seth Schofield issued a company wide announcement at the time of the settlement which explained how distasteful it was to have to drop the cases against those individuals. He said it was apparent that there would be no settlement otherwise.

Since you claim to have been on the negotiating committee at the time, you surely remember this interesting part of company history. Yet we all know that you will deny, deny, deny. Drawing inspiration from your new career, may I suggest the Twinkie defense? 😀

Don't let the facts get in the way.

I say again, don't let the facts get in your way!

 

[Phoenix]

Yet Harry this is the third or fourth post today you said about not reading me and having me on ignore, sounds like your a bit preoccupied by me.

Harry cant' see your posts, unless someone not on his ignore list quotes your posts. Your welcome.

Harry, 700 is trying to whisper sweet nothings into your ignore list.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Harry cant' see your posts, unless someone not on his ignore list quotes your posts. Your welcome.

Harry, 700 is trying to whisper sweet nothings into your ignore list.

LOL & you just quoted him which is the only way I see his post

 

[cactusboy53]

Wilder is an elder statesman of contract RL Law and has a stellar reputation. He was (our) shuttle pilots attorney during the merger...
Nobody that is in the business or know's it would say he is "just another lawyer" except you.

What a coincidence. That quite nearly describes the esteemed George Nicolau......🙂

 

[700UW]

Never said I was on the NC in 92.

 

[necigrad]

While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply. Pay close attention to the later part and the term "successor". I think this refers to the successor union during a merger. As an example, with my Fleet Service group the IAM was the successor for the combined work unit. In the pilots case, the successor was the same, ALPA. It was only after the merger that USAPA came in, and would not be considered a "successor" in this situation. Your assertion that USAPA is not restricted from negotiating the Nicolau award would be better addressed in your argument below.

The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicolau Award as the product of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA Merger Policy is only an internal union procedure. It is not part of the collective bargaining agreement with US Airways (even if it was, USAPA could still negotiate changes to it.) USAPA cannot be bound to ALPA Merger Policy since it is not ALPA, and only ALPA’s subordinate bodies, the Master Executive Councils (which, admittedly, are not real labor organizations) are bound to follow the Merger Policy. The Merger Policy has no standing under the Railway Labor Act and since USAPA’s successor obligations only exist under the RLA, they cannot include ALPA Merger Policy.

I don't know if you're right or wrong in the end, but legally the last Judge to rule is the law. Appeals may temporarily stay or permanently overturn that Judges ruling, but is a Judge rules it's a legal fact unless and until another Judge (one I think that has to be higher up, but I'm not positive) rules otherwise. Saying "the Court erred" is completely inappropriate, as they are the ones that get to determine how the law applies not any pilot, ramper, lawyer, or anyone else.

 

[A320 Driver]

Except they weren't.

Bular and Hogg were NEVER safety department. Morell was in the training department until he turned 60 and they had to find something else for him to screw up.

You are correct.
That was a major screw up on Cleary's part not knowing the players and letting the company lawyer enter incorrect information into testimony.

Driver <_<

 

[700UW]

Since you're a big proponent of not letting facts get in the way, maybe you're ready to acknowledge the following facts.

During the cooling off, there were numerous incidents of vandalism of company aircraft. In several cases, individuals were caught red handed.

A friend of mine who was a DC9 F/O at the time got involved as a witness in one case. He walked onboard an aircraft and saw a mechanic, on his knees in the aisle, ripping out the wiring for the floor track emergency lighting. Suffice to say, there was no maintenance scheduled on that system. The mechenic bolted off the aircraft but my friend followed him and got his name. Later, he was extremely angry as the case against the mechanic/criminal was dropped at the last minute as part of the contract settlement.

Seth Schofield issued a company wide announcement at the time of the settlement which explained how distasteful it was to have to drop the cases against those individuals. He said it was apparent that there would be no settlement otherwise.

Since you claim to have been on the negotiating committee at the time, you surely remember this interesting part of company history. Yet we all know that you will deny, deny, deny. Drawing inspiration from your new career, may I suggest the Twinkie defense? 😀

Don't let the facts get in the way.

I say again, don't let the facts get in your way!

Made up story. Hearsay.

Seth never put out a statement about dropping discipline, I call BS.

 

[nic4us]

OK.................





The judge ordered that USAPA must negotiate to implement the Nicolau Award unchanged into a combined collective bargaining agreement. It also ordered that USAPA could not negotiate separate agreements for the pilot groups. A later hearing on monetary damages, if any, will be held.

This decision is wrong, contradicts established law and is dangerous to the state of the law under the Railway Labor Act.

While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicolau Award as the product of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA Merger Policy is only an internal union procedure. It is not part of the collective bargaining agreement with US Airways (even if it was, USAPA could still negotiate changes to it.) USAPA cannot be bound to ALPA Merger Policy since it is not ALPA, and only ALPA’s subordinate bodies, the Master Executive Councils (which, admittedly, are not real labor organizations) are bound to follow the Merger Policy. The Merger Policy has no standing under the Railway Labor Act and since USAPA’s successor obligations only exist under the RLA, they cannot include ALPA Merger Policy.

You are still quoting Wilder, after I have shown the major false premises, so now I will add further screw ups Wilder made in both paragraphs.

Paragraph 1. "that in no way restricts usapa from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement". True enough I suppose, however, usapa is restricted by its DFR to the West, which the jury found them in violation, therefore the judge is in no way "restricted" in any remedy he deems appropriate. Further, usapa is restricted in other contract areas by the same DFR to the West, so, as judge Wake ordered, no seperate (unequal) contracts, no we bid vacation by DOH, no we bid our lines by DOH, or any other end run around the Nic that would violate the DFR. Again, Wilder is way off base in not recognizing the DFR owed to the West is certainly restricting usapa from making any changes to the Nic. Not to mention the underlying fact that usapa is further restriced because the company will not collude with them in their failure of that DFR, and be held liable with usapa. Therefore, usapa is most certainly restriced by not having the other party (i.e. the company) willing to negotiate those changes.

Paragraph 2. Flat out false statement that ALPA merger policy "is not part of the collective bargaining agreement." The West's contract 2004 specifically says, in Chapter 1. Recognition, Scope and Managements Rights, section F. paragraph 2. ALPA merger policy, when both sides are ALPA. Also, this was agreed upon in the TA that all three parties signed as an amendment LOA to the respective CBAs (assuring that it would be binding on USAirways LLC), so I would assume the east has the same exact language in their CBA. Wilder is being a complete idiot in his statements. He completely ignores the FACT that the Nic is a result of the CBAs negotiated under the rights both sides had from the RLA, then says it has no bearing under the RLA. Further, he also ignores the FACT that the company is also restricted under the contracts it negotiated under the RLA and is unwilling and unable to aquiesce to usapa's unreasonable demands to fail the West in their DFR owed them under that same RLA.

Conclusion,,,Wilder is either (1) a complete moron, (2)is unaware of the facts, or (3)is just purposely lying in an attempt to steal Seeham's cash cow.

One more thing. If Wilder ever counsels you that forcing seperate ops could never be considered a DFR, ask him if a judge could order a system wide bump and flush as an appropriate remedy to that DFR. Particularly if the company is held liable in a hybrid DFR claim. If he says no...then we know it is number (3) above.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Conclusion,,,Wilder is either (1) a complete moron, (2)is unaware of the facts, or (3)is just purposely lying in an attempt to steal Seeham's cash cow.

One more thing. If Wilder ever counsels you that forcing seperate ops could never be considered a DFR, ask him if a judge could order a system wide bump and flush as an appropriate remedy to that DFR. Particularly if the company is held liable in a hybrid DFR claim. If he says no...then we know it is number (3) above.

OKAY MOVE2CLTNIC4US, you have shown us the light! http://www.bapwild.com/ That lawfirm will probably go bancrupt since even you can see their shortcomings!

 

[usfliboi]

OKAY MOVE2CLTNIC4US, you have shown us the light! http://www.bapwild.com/ That lawfirm will probably go bancrupt since even you can see their shortcomings!

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05-November 10 Effective immediately, entire posts containing name calling or insults will be removed and the member that posted it will have their warning level adjusted. Please use the report feature to alert the moderators when this occurs. Repeat offenders will be at risk to have their IP Address blocked from accessing the site.


Does anyone know why this isnt enforced?

 

[luvthe9]

Member

Group:
Admin Posts:
15 Joined:
05-November 10 Effective immediately, entire posts containing name calling or insults will be removed and the member that posted it will have their warning level adjusted. Please use the report feature to alert the moderators when this occurs. Repeat offenders will be at risk to have their IP Address blocked from accessing the site.


Does anyone know why this isnt enforced?

It is, that's why half the west people have new names!!!