The Changes to Come

[UtterlyUdder]

During Bob Crandall’s long tenure as CEO of American Airlines, the airline was truly an innovator—so much so that employees at AA had a certain swagger about them. They knew they were the best and brightest of the industry. It was on Crandall’s watch that American created one of the first frequent flyer programs in the industry, developed the most sophisticated reservation system of its time, and pioneered the concept of “yield managementâ€â€”using sophisticated algorithms to constantly reprice fares to maximize the revenue for each flight. Labor relations was another matter, but Crandall knew—and knows—his business.

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/trav...randall_ho.html

You're quite right. Crandall also was the first to lighten the load by taking a few olives off of the salads served on AA aircraft. Crandall and Kelleher are true innovators. So far I don't see that in DP.

 

[signals]

But its not just US doing this scenario and digging their own grave with WN laughing hysterically all the way to the bank and why shouldn't they? They've been happily picking up our carcasses for years. so what do we do? Feed em some more :blink: They have brilliant marketing minds and I wish I was on their team, but I'm on the Dark Horse. Why can't we get our peeps to think like they do????????

I flew to Florida for 20 + years on a regular basis (minimum of every 3 months from 1987 to 1999. I payed the same fare back then (and sometime even more) from NYC to Florida as most people are paying today! My God Magnum why are we the ONLY industry that does not adjust for inflation? No wonder our planes are full EVERYDAY! Don't tell me they're not because I'm on them ALOT. Or I'm non-reving ... We ALL know how much fun that is these days!

We need to STOP shouldering everyone else's burden ... Almost sounds communistic ... Fair for ALL and ALL pay the price

In some other thread I called LUV a 'high maintanence' airline and some thought I talked about its aircraft...as seen when LUV had cracks in the fuselage. I was talking about their 'marketing minds' as you call them. They know where to "STRATEGICALLY" place themselves in any given airport. I get this proof from my location. They seem to think, "What is best for the customer that will keep them coming back?" They look at concessions, amenities, easy access to gate and baggage claim, closest to bar or alcohol outlet, convenience, easy to locate, etc.

Let me put it another way: When NW becomes DL and possibly moves to another terminal, then WN will move to NW's gate at my location!

Yes, their Customer Service does their homework. Perhaps US should do the same. In my location LCC still has the 'corner' office, but B6 is invading, thus LUV would be a bigger blow,IMO.

 

[Travelpro72]

After stepping away from the computer for a while I have been able to collect my thoughts a bit. I don't care if they go as far as selling seat belts. What I DO care about and what I DO expect as a flight attendant is that they do NOT start a beverage sale program UNTIL the handheld units are on property. I also feel they need to have the NEW carts we see or airbus style carts on the Boeing 737-300/400, 757 and 767 and load it on and off for every leg. This will keep the sales in ONE cart and keep the BS down to minimum. I'm trusting that most ALL beverages can be kept in one cart on these airplanes. No more full can on the PHL-MCO turn if ya know what I mean. You will be VERY hard pressed to find crews scrimping and scrounging through the cabin for change due to everyone giving them five dollar bills. I'm just being honest...it will NEVER, EVER happen. Management needs to think the process through. Not to mention the caterers that are swamped and don't have much time on quick turns and are understaffed themselves. I call BS to the whole thing and forget about getting the crews/catering onboard until you as management fill your end of the bargain and ENSURE a descent work environment. PERIOD! ! ! !

 

[N903AW]

America West was model after PEOPLExpress

Only in some areas such as cross-utilized employees and onboard ticketing (which was discontinued by the second year of operation).

America West did not charge for beverages in the early days. On the contrary, everything onboard AWA was complimentary - including alcoholic beverages, Wall Street Journal, meals and later headsets with the introduction of the 757s.

 

[roabilly]

"Not to mention the caterers that are swamped and don't have much time on quick turns and are understaffed themselves. I call BS to the whole thing and forget about getting the crews/catering onboard until you as management fill your end of the bargain and ENSURE a descent work environment. PERIOD! ! ! !"

Just a brief statement regarding in-flight beverage sales…

What I will find interesting when we actually began to charge for beverages is… how will the revenue vs. product accounting take place? The current system that is being used for Beer, Liquor, and Wine has no means to correspond the sales…revenue…and accounting!

The cash goes one place, with the Flight Attendants, while the product container with the remaining product and supposed paperwork goes to the Catering Facility.

Once the “Product Container†reaches the Catering facility, agents remove the seals, throw the paperwork away without a glance... and refill the container to specifications.

There is no auditing system in place to actually have checks, and balances to verify revenue with returned inventory. In my opinion… until this situation is rectified, any such program will be unmanageable in terms of accounting.

Piedmont Airlines maintained a virtually airtight system… that accounted for every single unit of beverage sold, and included the cash revenue proceeds with the returned product, and paper work all in one locked, secure container. The Catering Agents then removed the locks… counted the revenue…verified the returned product… matched all that to the Flight Attendants paperwork… and then performed strict inventories at the end of each shift to insure all monies… paper work, and used product correlated. This was done down to the penny!

A system such as this will be needed to ensure the full benefit of in-flight sales.

 

[flybynite]

Us, old piedmonsters, have been telling the powers that be the same thing for about 19 years. 😱

 

[Whatnow?]

Just a brief statement regarding in-flight beverage sales…

What I will find interesting when we actually began to charge for beverages is… how will the revenue vs. product accounting take place? The current system that is being used for Beer, Liquor, and Wine has no means to correspond the sales…revenue…and accounting!

I'm wondering if the whole idea behind charging for soft drinks is to reduce the amount of soft drinks being used onboard. If you think about it, most people will refuse to pay for a soft drink onboard or will simply bring their own.....there will less to replace onboard by catering and increasing stock in the commissaries. As far as accountability, it will be impossible to account for soft beverages being sold as well as inventoried onboard any a/c.....it simply won't work......doesn't work now for liquor/beer/wine. And as for the monies collected, well that would still be a drop in the bucket as far as revenue for the Airline to recoup with these outrageous oil prices. Just a thought.

 

[sharktooth]

I'm wondering if the whole idea behind charging for soft drinks is to reduce the amount of soft drinks being used onboard.

I think you mean reduced inventory.

I am surprised someone is not going to each airport, negotiating a cart or space to sell items to take on board, a sort of 7-11 at the gate. Wouldn't have to worry about being knocked off.....

I bet Rakesh would do it. :blink:

 

[UPNAWAY]

Only in some areas such as cross-utilized employees and onboard ticketing (which was discontinued by the second year of operation).

America West did not charge for beverages in the early days. On the contrary, everything onboard AWA was complimentary - including alcoholic beverages, Wall Street Journal, meals and later headsets with the introduction of the 757s.

Those early years the LAS flights where a lot of fun (Unless you worked them), everyone was drunk!

 

[hulagirl]

You're quite right. Crandall also was the first to lighten the load by taking a few olives off of the salads served on AA aircraft. Crandall and Kelleher are true innovators. So far I don't see that in DP.

I agree that Doug is a bit of a follower. Lightbulb, please?

 

[roabilly]

I'm wondering if the whole idea behind charging for soft drinks is to reduce the amount of soft drinks being used onboard. If you think about it, most people will refuse to pay for a soft drink onboard or will simply bring their own.....there will less to replace onboard by catering and increasing stock in the commissaries. As far as accountability, it will be impossible to account for soft beverages being sold as well as inventoried onboard any a/c.....it simply won't work......doesn't work now for liquor/beer/wine. And as for the monies collected, well that would still be a drop in the bucket as far as revenue for the Airline to recoup with these outrageous oil prices. Just a thought.

Unless galleys are reconfigured to hold fewer beverages… presuming that the surcharge will reduce consumption… we will still be hauling around hundreds of pounds of non-revenue producing dead weight in the form of unsold beverages, on every single aircraft in the fleet.

Hmmmm…let’s add the cost of complete galley reconfigurations on each A/C…

Any suggestions?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Unless galleys are reconfigured to hold fewer beverages… presuming that the surcharge will reduce consumption… we will still be hauling around hundreds of pounds of non-revenue producing dead weight in the form of unsold beverages, on every single aircraft in the fleet.

Sorry to be a one line wonder, but what do you think we do now?

 

[roabilly]

Sorry to be a one line wonder, but what do you think we do now?

Because we do it now…doesn’t justify doing it in the future. Does anyone know the approximate cost of carrying one pound of weight… leg by leg …all day long on the typical US daily A/C routing?

I would love to know approximate fuel burn off figures, and multiply that at today’s fuel prices…while figuring in all unused galley supply weight. We carry way too much junk around that will never get used!

I would venture to say that on the typical A321 this figure well exceeds 1000 lbs of dead, never to be touched... redundant supplies.

 

[autofixer]

Because we do it now…doesn’t justify doing it in the future. Does anyone know the approximate cost of carrying one pound of weight… leg by leg …all day long on the typical US daily A/C routing?

I would love to know approximate fuel burn off figures, and multiply that at today’s fuel prices…while figuring in all unused galley supply weight. We carry way too much junk around that will never get used!

I would venture to say that on the typical A321 this figure well exceeds 1000 lbs of dead, never to be touched... redundant supplies.


I saw a figure the other day, 50 pounds per aircraft equals $440,000 per year per aircraft. I will try to find the source.

This is not the source, but it will give you the idea of how small weight reducitons can equal huge savings over time:

www.icao.int/env/WorkshopFuelEmissions/Presentations/Viscotchi.pdf

 

[PA18]

Piedmont Airlines maintained a virtually airtight system… that accounted for every single unit of beverage sold, and included the cash revenue proceeds with the returned product, and paper work all in one locked, secure container. The Catering Agents then removed the locks… counted the revenue…verified the returned product… matched all that to the Flight Attendants paperwork… and then performed strict inventories at the end of each shift to insure all monies… paper work, and used product correlated. This was done down to the penny!

A system such as this will be needed to ensure the full benefit of in-flight sales.

I'm assuming that in those days the catering agents were actual Piedmont employees, right?

Do you really want the out-sourced catering employees of today handling the cash from the inflight sales?