the great power grab

[Tater Salad]

I have a few questions?

1. What are the pres. of the line locals going to do? Support the new scam local or decide that the TWU Intl needs to go?

2. Are the Board members of the locals that are merged into 591 with No job going to continue to draw $$ from the TWU although thier positions have been eliminated?

3. Do the shop stewards have to re run for the positions they hold at the stations of the closed locals?

4. What about the section chairs at those stations as well will they have to run for offic or will they be grandfathered in?

5. Are the safety and lic. protection and what ever other posions each local has going to be re-elected and are they
going to draw a larger $$ share along with new regional VP's and local 591 newly elected officers since the size of the local and its membership IF I am not incorrect determines the $$ of the officers?

6. When Board meeting are required by the new local how is that going to happen if officers are NOT in Dallas?

7. How is information going to be sent to members and what input are we going to have if we are NOT able to go to any meeting since NO local in city being worked?

Just a few question I can Assume that many of YOU also have questions? Add them and lets see what answers we get.

1. Can't speak for the rest of the system, but I'm pretty sure the current 563 board doesn't want anything to do with 591.

2. They will no longer be elected oficials in the new union. And there will only be a VP and chairperson as officers per Region.

3. Yep,

4. Nobody will be grandfathered.

5. Positions like Safety and EAP coordinators are to be appointed by the King, (President)

6. Skype or Fly down to DFW i guess.

7. The same way you get information now, you hear it second or third hand on the floor.

 

[TWU informer]

Interesting how so-called "rogue" locals informing the membership and spending money on advertisements against concessions get whipped like a dog in a cage. How dare anyone think for themselves and go against King Little and his appointees. Anyone that did not realize the TWU is a sellout company union, should surely see through the smoke screen now? Everyone one of you Local Presidents should have resigned long ago, called the media and placed the truth about this union in the public's eye. But no, each you still wanted to believe that YOU could make a difference and change things. Sorry, not the TWU, and not YOU

 

[FWAAA]

How long does it take to get enough cards signed? Are there really thousands of mechanics who are satisfied with their current representation? What's the hold-up? I can understand an absence of motivation to fix the plane as fast as possible (what with the low pay and benefits and all), but what's the motivation for dragging your feet on the ousting of the TWU? Is the problem that half of your co-workers are too stupid to see the benefit in tossing out the bus/subway drivers union? What's the problem?

 

[TWU informer]

How long does it take to get enough cards signed? Are there really thousands of mechanics who are satisfied with their current representation? What's the hold-up? I can understand an absence of motivation to fix the plane as fast as possible (what with the low pay and benefits and all), but what's the motivation for dragging your feet on the ousting of the TWU? Is the problem that half of your co-workers are too stupid to see the benefit in tossing out the bus/subway drivers union? What's the problem?

Long enough to be sure that we are able to defeat TWU/AA/NMB and OBAMA

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

How long does it take to get enough cards signed? Are there really thousands of mechanics who are satisfied with their current representation? What's the hold-up? I can understand an absence of motivation to fix the plane as fast as possible (what with the low pay and benefits and all), but what's the motivation for dragging your feet on the ousting of the TWU? Is the problem that half of your co-workers are too stupid to see the benefit in tossing out the bus/subway drivers union? What's the problem?

FWAAA

I don't think its the lack of knowledge, its the lack of fight. The TWU has been here so long that with all the give backs and rah rah they have done in support of AA the employees here at AA just don't know what it means to stand together as a UNION.

There has never been any one here at AA that had enough fight in them to lead the way. If and when some one does speek up they take it as an attack against AA, and God Forbid we talk bad about the TWU.
It depends on what station as well. If you talk to the guys from the NE you get one answer since they are more union than the rest. West coast guys just simply don't care. SE guys I am just glad I have a job.

The TWU has been a company Union and most here have not worked any other place so they just don't know.

The Pan Am or Eastern Type guys were just too radical in thier ways that the TWU guys made them out to be the bad guys. We need them gone because they are going to F%#k up our deals.

Even today as we have lost our pension and a lot more it still is not enough for these guys here at AA to stand together its all about the I Got Mine attitude taught to them by the TWU. When mechanics get laid off there are guys here at AA that the same night as mechanics are being walked out come in to work over time. I have a boat payment, you can't tell me I'll call hr and rat you to HR for article 32. The AA way. The TWU union official never taught the new members what it ment to work in a union shop so, it is the way it is.

The only way to correct it is to reboot and start over, That means GET RID OF THE TWU.

Bring in a new way of thinking and a different way of dealing with the company. That comes with Leadership, with the TWU there isn't any because the same ole guys are at the top and can't be removed. They make suttle changes to effect how they want things, it's never for the total group it is only for the voting control. Thats why were getting the line stations closed in my opinion. Shut up the line and AMFA or the IBT will just go away. Give a little to Tulsa, for now and we will spin the rest when the shoe drops. Typical TWU .......

 

[Rogallo]

Is the problem that half of your co-workers are too stupid to see the benefit in tossing out the bus/subway drivers union?

IMHO YES......and ignorant!

The intrinsic difference is that ignorance simply implies lack of awareness about something, while stupidity denotes the inability of a person to understand something due to insufficient intelligence.

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[1AA]

Guys in Tulsa need to know that the pilots get 14% 401k contribution without a match. We only get 5.5% max with a match. This is what happens when you really fight like hell like the pilots did. What did the twu do? They sold us out to protect their financial interest. Time to get the word out to the holdouts. Let's get this done.

 

[swamt]

How long does it take to get enough cards signed? Are there really thousands of mechanics who are satisfied with their current representation? What's the hold-up? I can understand an absence of motivation to fix the plane as fast as possible (what with the low pay and benefits and all), but what's the motivation for dragging your feet on the ousting of the TWU? Is the problem that half of your co-workers are too stupid to see the benefit in tossing out the bus/subway drivers union? What's the problem?

Also, AMFA National, as well as the organizers, are wanting to collect above the 50% plus one requirement to file. I personally do not know the numbers for fact, but I would guess around 60-65% is the goal in order to file. The reasoning behind the increase is due to the last AMFA representational vote as well as some other things. Be patient my friend, it is going to happen, I know, it's time for change now. It's coming brother, it's coming...

 

[FWAAA]

Guys in Tulsa need to know that the pilots get 14% 401k contribution without a match. We only get 5.5% max with a match. This is what happens when you really fight like hell like the pilots did. What did the twu do? They sold us out to protect their financial interest. Time to get the word out to the holdouts. Let's get this done.

Some historical perspective helps shed light on this disparity. Pilots might argue that the TWU members did better, retirement-wise, in bankruptcy. Here's why:

For many years, AA's pilots had their generous defined benefit pension (A plan) plus the company-provided 11% defined contribution (B plan).

Now, their A plan is frozen and in return, the pilots got an extra 3% (from 11% to 14%) of defined contribution. The B plan will be rolled into a 401k for the pilots. Net effect: they got 3% additional to compensate them for the freeze.

TWU members got a 5.5% match into their 401k in exchange for the pension freeze. Sure, you've got to put in 5.5% of your own money, but if you do, you'll get the maximum match. Admitedly, AA mechanics' retirement is not a rich one, but in some ways, you guys got a higher percentage out of AA for the pension freeze than did the pilots.

I agree that the TWU should be shown the door but this is one area where (perhaps by accident), the mechanics may have done better in Ch 11 than the pilots.

 

[TWU informer]

In my opinion, the biggest loss the Pilot's suffered was the loss of the lump sum option. Which TWU lost in late 1980's. You did however seem to ignore the 13.5% equity stake the Pilot's also got.

 

[FWAAA]

In my opinion, the biggest loss the Pilot's suffered was the loss of the lump sum option. Which TWU lost in late 1980's. You did however seem to ignore the 13.5% equity stake the Pilot's also got.

Good point. Although I'm sure that pilots would disagree, 13.5% split among about 8,000 members is fairly generous compared to the TWU's 4.8% to be shared by more than twice as many employees.

And true, the loss of the lump sum option leaves them vulnerable to huge losses if/when Doug Parker finds it "necessary" to take AA thru Bankruptcy Round II.

 

[Rogallo]

compared to the TWU's 4.8% to be shared by more than twice as many employees.

Did you think about that before you wrote it!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Some historical perspective helps shed light on this disparity. Pilots might argue that the TWU members did better, retirement-wise, in bankruptcy. Here's why:

For many years, AA's pilots had their generous defined benefit pension (A plan) plus the company-provided 11% defined contribution (B plan).

Now, their A plan is frozen and in return, the pilots got an extra 3% (from 11% to 14%) of defined contribution. The B plan will be rolled into a 401k for the pilots. Net effect: they got 3% additional to compensate them for the freeze.

TWU members got a 5.5% match into their 401k in exchange for the pension freeze. Sure, you've got to put in 5.5% of your own money, but if you do, you'll get the maximum match. Admitedly, AA mechanics' retirement is not a rich one, but in some ways, you guys got a higher percentage out of AA for the pension freeze than did the pilots.

I agree that the TWU should be shown the door but this is one area where (perhaps by accident), the mechanics may have done better in Ch 11 than the pilots.

Weak arguement. Pilots get an additional 3% without having to contribute anything. We have to put in 5.5% in order to get the 5.5%. So we basically are buying our pensions by doing without up to 5.5% of our current pay to get the match. We have to put 3% to even get 3% while the pilots dont have to put anything in there to get the additional 3%. If we are not able to contribute anything, which will be common for many mechanics and other TWU members, (and the company expects that around a third wont), then we get nothing.


AA went too far with maintenance. Every day I hear of another guy who has put in at the MTA. AA will be the training ground for other carriers, much like they were in the late 80s, since they have to stay three years to keep the match many wont bother looking to get the AA match, its not worth staying for what comes out to maybe $3000 a year for a job where you only get 5 vacation days and 2.5 days of pay for working the Holidays, add in the lower hourly rates and its a no brainer.

Lets take UAL for example, here in NY they will be looking for mechanics once they finish their new Hangar over in EWR. So lets say AA is able to hire the 60 guys they need here at the third step. The new guys will get $25.37 an hour, 5 days of vacation after a year and 20 hours extra pay for working all the Holidays, if they go to UAL they will start off with two weeks of vacation and 100 hours extra pay for working the Holidays, so right off the bat they get 120 extra hours pay by leaving AA, and UAL tops out around $5/hr more than AA. So even if they took a cut in pay, if they work the same amount of hours the Holidays and vacation time would make up for around $4500 worth of that cut.