the IAM is mad at the back door deals at AA!

[dfw gen]

http://business-news.thestreet.com/dallas-morning-news/story/us-airways-union-assails-back-room-deal-with-amr-workers/11824724

ok so the iam is pissed at the back door deals of usair and the twu. we are not even married and they are getting the picture already!

 

[exs]

Hey US Air Amt's, welcome to our hell !!!

 

[1AA]

The TWU is full of sellout deals.
Yesterday Don and Bobby said that seniorities will be dovetailed not merged.
USAir got the better deal on that one.

We have over 8,000 on our list. I know USAir has less.

My guess is the last 5000 amts on the combined list will be all AA guys.
If there are any layoffs in the Future the first 5000 guys will be all AA.
With the Dovetailing you will have less senior guys be above more senior guys on the list. So a USAir guy with 96 seniority will be above a AA guy with 90 seniority and will hit the street first. So we at AA lose again. Thanks to the back door deals of the TWU.
We had no say or no input on this. The union agreed to this. Is this what unions are all about? What happen to preserving seniority?

Anyone still thinks the Teamsters is better? They have not settled on the seniority issue at UAL/CAL to this day. They have issues at USAir with the passenger service agents. Two unions (IBT and CWA) and no agreement in sight.
At least over at SWA the membership had a vote on how to settle their seniority integration with the AirTran merger. They settled it a few months back.
If this merger goes through we will always have issues with seniority and work rules. it will be the same as it is now at USAir but at a larger scale.

Again the AA guys got screwed by the TWU.

Had enough yet??????

 

[iluvaa]

Plz explain this senority issue more

 

[bigjets]

The TWU is full of sellout deals.
Yesterday Don and Bobby said that seniorities will be dovetailed not merged.
USAir got the better deal on that one.

We have over 8,000 on our list. I know USAir has less.

My guess is the last 5000 amts on the combined list will be all AA guys.
If there are any layoffs in the Future the first 5000 guys will be all AA.
With the Dovetailing you will have less senior guys be above more senior guys on the list. So a USAir guy with 96 seniority will be above a AA guy with 90 seniority and will hit the street first. So we at AA lose again. Thanks to the back door deals of the TWU.
We had no say or no input on this. The union agreed to this. Is this what unions are all about? What happen to preserving seniority?

Anyone still thinks the Teamsters is better? They have not settled on the seniority issue at UAL/CAL to this day. They have issues at USAir with the passenger service agents. Two unions (IBT and CWA) and no agreement in sight.
At least over at SWA the membership had a vote on how to settle their seniority integration with the AirTran merger. They settled it a few months back.
If this merger goes through we will always have issues with seniority and work rules. it will be the same as it is now at USAir but at a larger scale.

Again the AA guys got screwed by the TWU.

Had enough yet??????

I'm only in the TWU because I have to be, but section 5 paragraph b of the MOU does say merged seniority list.

 

[700UW]

You have no clue how dovetail works.

It is one for one seniority, if you have three mechanics say, 1/1/05, 1/2/05, and 1/3/05, the one hired on the first is senior, then the other two fail right behind.

Someone with a 96 hire date wont be senior to someone with a 90 seniority date.

Historically, the IAM’s seniority integration policy has been to integrate by the current date of hire into the specified classification (dovetailing). However, the IAM recognizes that sometimes issues arise that require more consideration than a simple dovetailing. The IAM will create seniority integration committees made up of representatives from both pre-merger airlines to resolve seniority disputes when they arise. If agreements cannot be reached, the issues will be submitted to a neutral arbitrator for resolution.

The IAM has a history of protecting seniority in mergers - that is not the case for all unions. For example, when United bought Pan Am's Pacific routes in 1985, AFA argued before a neutral arbitrator that Pan Am flight attendants should be stapled to the bottom of the combined seniority list.

In contrast, when US Airways and America West merged, the IAM's merger policy protected the seniority dates of employees at both carriers, even if they were formerly members of another union.

 

[Overspeed]

The TWU is full of sellout deals.
Yesterday Don and Bobby said that seniorities will be dovetailed not merged.
USAir got the better deal on that one.

We have over 8,000 on our list. I know USAir has less.

My guess is the last 5000 amts on the combined list will be all AA guys.
If there are any layoffs in the Future the first 5000 guys will be all AA.
With the Dovetailing you will have less senior guys be above more senior guys on the list. So a USAir guy with 96 seniority will be above a AA guy with 90 seniority and will hit the street first. So we at AA lose again. Thanks to the back door deals of the TWU.
We had no say or no input on this. The union agreed to this. Is this what unions are all about? What happen to preserving seniority?

Anyone still thinks the Teamsters is better? They have not settled on the seniority issue at UAL/CAL to this day. They have issues at USAir with the passenger service agents. Two unions (IBT and CWA) and no agreement in sight.
At least over at SWA the membership had a vote on how to settle their seniority integration with the AirTran merger. They settled it a few months back.
If this merger goes through we will always have issues with seniority and work rules. it will be the same as it is now at USAir but at a larger scale.

Again the AA guys got screwed by the TWU.

Had enough yet??????

Wait a minute. Your mad because of dovetailing? Did you know the IBT is promising the same thing to US members during their organizing drive? AMFA organizers have told me if all mechanics in the industry go with them we will have an industry seniority list. So now when the TWU agrees to honor seniority your pissed? Ok. You sound conflicted.

 

[1AA]

I'm only in the TWU because I have to be, but section 5 paragraph b of the MOU does say merged seniority list.

You can merge by date of hire.
Date of classification within that classification and date of hire for other
reasons....Vacation.
Merge by Dovetailing.

 

[1AA]

Wait a minute. Your mad because of dovetailing? Did you know the IBT is promising the same thing to US members during their organizing drive? AMFA organizers have told me if all mechanics in the industry go with them we will have an industry seniority list. So now when the TWU agrees to honor seniority your pissed? Ok. You sound conflicted.

 

[700UW]

The IAM has always uses dovetail, because of people that start in the company in a different department and transfer.

At US they use DOH travel and vacation and DOC for job bidding, shifts, etc....

 

[Rogallo]

Oh, it's gonna be quite the fustercluck!!

 

[1AA]

OK I stand corrected in the definition of Dovetailing. My bad but I still do not trust the TWU and their back door deals.

DOVETAIL SENIORITY - The combination of two or more seniority lists (usually of different employers being merged) into a master seniority list, with each employee keeping the seniority previously acquired even though the employee may thereafter be employed by a new employer.

 

[Desert Snake]

The IAM is mad?!? I'm sure it's a front to make it less obvious that they're in the company's pocket. Until they get us they get us a worthy contract it's all smoke and mirrors. They act like they're going to get us (US mechs) a great contract, I doubt they will even get us our 100% paid sick back. With the IBT card drive going on, they are spewing more bs than normal.

 

[1AA]

The IAM is mad?!? I'm sure it's a front to make it less obvious that they're in the company's pocket. Until they get us they get us a worthy contract it's all smoke and mirrors. They act like they're going to get us (US mechs) a great contract, I doubt they will even get us our 100% paid sick back. With the IBT card drive going on, they are spewing more bs than normal.

You don't want the IBT. They are spreading the same lies and false promises here at AA. Knocking on doors, mailers and phone calls to our homes. All their claims have been easily proven to be wrong. The UAL/CAL guys have them and they can not wait to get rid of them. As soon as they finalize their issues they will start a campaign to get rid of the Teamsters. I was told they are split between AMFA and the IAM. If they are considering the IAM why would you guys think of going with the Teamsters? Learn from them and do not fall into the Teamsters trap of crap. But that is all on another AA thread to read about and comment.

 

[WNMECH]

Good luck to you guys on getting a fair combined seniority list if a merger goes through.
At least AMFA allowed us to fight for our seniority in our merger with Airtran.

After we rejected a company sponsored deal, we fought the teamsters lawyer and achieved an SLI that favored SWA mechanics with a 4 year boost to our side before merging the lists.

With the TWU bargaining for you, there is no telling what they will accept that you will have to live with.

Again, I wish you all good luck.