NO Deal for APFA

[NYer]

From Leslie Mayo, National Communications Coordinator, ​

with the APFA Hotline for the week ending June 1, 2012.

​

"Today, mediated talks between AA and APFA broke off in New York without a deal. APFA is disappointed, but not surprised."

"So, what's next? The pilots will meet with AA and Judge James Peck who is mediating these sessions beginning Monday, June 4th. Following that, TWU will attempt to reach a deal under the same circumstances. If no deal is reached before June 22, Judge Lane will render a verdict regarding AMR's 1113 request to abrogate our contracts and impose its Term Sheet."

"If the judge chooses to grant AMR's request, the timing with which management will implement Term Sheet changes is, as yet, undetermined. AA has not shared that information with us. We remain hopeful that the judge will see what AA's labor leaders, industry experts and the Wall Street analysts already know: AA's standalone business plan isn't the answer to American Airlines' future success; a merger with US Airways is."

 

[ContUNITEus]

I wish this to be the first judge that does not follow the actions of every other judge presiding over an 1113 case.

 

[jersey777]

Totally unsurprising. Why "deal" with an outgoing management team. I would rather have the judge cram the term sheet down our throats then to work with TOHO and company. If we have to live under the term sheet for a few months then so be it. Our future lies with a merger with USair and their management team.

 

[Bob Owens]

I wish this to be the first judge that does not follow the actions of every other judge presiding over an 1113 case.

"Every other Judge"?
Guess you didnt hear about Hostess. In that case the workers are free to strike upon abrogation and the Judge ruled against Hostess. Hostess wanted concessions so they could make a 10% profit. AA wants a 17% profit.

Whats happening now is precident setting, we have companies that are not in a heightened state of risk who simply want to use the courts to replace the collective bargaining process, so yes maybe 90% of the time the Judges ruled in favor of the debtor but maybe in 90% of those cases the company really was facing liqiudation if they failed to get the concessions.

Thats not the case at AA. AA is just being greedy. Sure they posted losses while everyone else was posting profits but that didnt stop them from continueing to spend money like a drunken sailor and buy 500 new airplanes. Keep in mind that AA is expecting to make 17% while getting these planes, imagine what they expect to be making when they are paid down.

 

[Flying low]

From Leslie Mayo, National Communications Coordinator, ​

with the APFA Hotline for the week ending June 1, 2012.
​

"Today, mediated talks between AA and APFA broke off in New York without a deal. APFA is disappointed, but not surprised."

"So, what's next? The pilots will meet with AA and Judge James Peck who is mediating these sessions beginning Monday, June 4th. Following that, TWU will attempt to reach a deal under the same circumstances. If no deal is reached before June 22, Judge Lane will render a verdict regarding AMR's 1113 request to abrogate our contracts and impose its Term Sheet."

"If the judge chooses to grant AMR's request, the timing with which management will implement Term Sheet changes is, as yet, undetermined. AA has not shared that information with us. We remain hopeful that the judge will see what AA's labor leaders, industry experts and the Wall Street analysts already know: AA's standalone business plan isn't the answer to American Airlines' future success; a merger with US Airways is."

Can YOU explain why US Airways is the future of AA success.

 

[700UW]

Hostess unionized employees are under the NRLA, you know the Bob, not the RLA, two different sets of rules.

Compare apples to apples, not oranges.

 

[texflyer]

"Every other Judge"?
Guess you didnt hear about Hostess. In that case the workers are free to strike upon abrogation and the Judge ruled against Hostess. Hostess wanted concessions so they could make a 10% profit. AA wants a 17% profit.

Whats happening now is precident setting, we have companies that are not in a heightened state of risk who simply want to use the courts to replace the collective bargaining process, so yes maybe 90% of the time the Judges ruled in favor of the debtor but maybe in 90% of those cases the company really was facing liqiudation if they failed to get the concessions.

Thats not the case at AA. AA is just being greedy. Sure they posted losses while everyone else was posting profits but that didnt stop them from continueing to spend money like a drunken sailor and buy 500 new airplanes. Keep in mind that AA is expecting to make 17% while getting these planes, imagine what they expect to be making when they are paid down.

Look at the price of fuel, you need those airplanes. And your MD80s aren't getting any younger.

 

[FWAAA]

"Every other Judge"?
Guess you didnt hear about Hostess. In that case the workers are free to strike upon abrogation and the Judge ruled against Hostess. Hostess wanted concessions so they could make a 10% profit. AA wants a 17% profit.

AA has not publicly released any EBITDA or EBITDAR targets, so your claim of 17% is either you making things up again (as you've done before) or it's you disclosing AA's confidential information in violation of the nondisclosure provisions of the confidentiality agreement. Which is it?

For some perspective, both UA and DL had EBITDA of 10.7% in 2011.

Whats happening now is precident setting, we have companies that are not in a heightened state of risk who simply want to use the courts to replace the collective bargaining process, so yes maybe 90% of the time the Judges ruled in favor of the debtor but maybe in 90% of those cases the company really was facing liqiudation if they failed to get the concessions.

Thats not the case at AA. AA is just being greedy. Sure they posted losses while everyone else was posting profits but that didnt stop them from continueing to spend money like a drunken sailor and buy 500 new airplanes. Keep in mind that AA is expecting to make 17% while getting these planes, imagine what they expect to be making when they are paid down.

In three weeks, reality will set in.

 

[NYer]

"Every other Judge"?
Guess you didnt hear about Hostess. In that case the workers are free to strike upon abrogation and the Judge ruled against Hostess. Hostess wanted concessions so they could make a 10% profit. AA wants a 17% profit.

Whats happening now is precident setting, we have companies that are not in a heightened state of risk who simply want to use the courts to replace the collective bargaining process, so yes maybe 90% of the time the Judges ruled in favor of the debtor but maybe in 90% of those cases the company really was facing liqiudation if they failed to get the concessions.

Thats not the case at AA. AA is just being greedy. Sure they posted losses while everyone else was posting profits but that didnt stop them from continueing to spend money like a drunken sailor and buy 500 new airplanes. Keep in mind that AA is expecting to make 17% while getting these planes, imagine what they expect to be making when they are paid down.

I have a friend in the Teamsters, and he said the workers agreed to the Hostess Ask, but the hold up is the multi-employer pension which is a separate agreement with the Teamsters and something that an investor will have to deal with regardless. The Judge knows a strike would liquidate Hostess, but the Teamsters have an understanding with a company called Bimbo who would come in and take over after the fact buy the assets so the workers are covered one way or another. (The Teamsters represent some workers at Bimbo). He said that situation has nothing to do with the actual contract and the Judge is buying time to have an investor step in rather than liquidate.

 

[FWAAA]

Totally unsurprising. Why "deal" with an outgoing management team. I would rather have the judge cram the term sheet down our throats then to work with TOHO and company. If we have to live under the term sheet for a few months then so be it. Our future lies with a merger with USair and their management team.

Unfortunately, if the term sheets are imposed, and US (and Doug Parker) take over, what makes you so certain that the term sheets don't stick around for a while? US and HP merged in 2005 and here we are nearly seven years later and the pilots are still working under their bankruptcy-era contracts. Same with the FAs, although they recently rejected a TA that would have raised their pay significantly.

 

[jersey777]

Unfortunately, if the term sheets are imposed, and US (and Doug Parker) take over, what makes you so certain that the term sheets don't stick around for a while? US and HP merged in 2005 and here we are nearly seven years later and the pilots are still working under their bankruptcy-era contracts. Same with the FAs, although they recently rejected a TA that would have raised their pay significantly.

Because of this provision in the bridge term sheet:

• Expedited Negotiations for New Contract: Negotiations for a market based contract will take place immediately following a single-carrier certification. If an agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of the certification the matter will be submitted to final binding arbitration.

 

[FA Mikey]

So you are willing to accept final binding arbitration for anything the company doesnt choose to negotiate? Brilliant, why not do just that with AA?

 

[jersey777]

So you are willing to accept final binding arbitration for anything the company doesnt choose to negotiate? Brilliant, why not do just that with AA?

The APFA requested binding arbitration and AA declined...... thats why smarty!


This is from the March 14, 2012 hotline:


Last week APFA as well as TWU and APA requested binding arbitration from the NMB. On Monday the NMB sent a letter to AA requesting comments regarding the request. The company has until 4:00 pm ET on March 19 to provide comments.

 

[737823]

Back in 2010 AA was willing to agree to binding arbitration and APFA wasn't. At the time, I thought their unwillingness was revealing, as if the APFA was so sure management was the one being unreasonable. Fast forward two years and you have APFA wanting binding arbitration. It's just like Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, whenever Israel offers something Palestinians want more, quickly realize they wont get what they are seeking and want the last best offer only to find its no longer on the table.

APFA is in a position to make major concessions, not gains. Can't believe they thought AA would consider a $75k early out incentive plus travel benefits when AA can impose unpleasant changes that will cause many, especially senior FAs to leave on their own will.

Josh

 

[ContUNITEus]

Unfortunately, if the term sheets are imposed, and US (and Doug Parker) take over, what makes you so certain that the term sheets don't stick around for a while? US and HP merged in 2005 and here we are nearly seven years later and the pilots are still working under their bankruptcy-era contracts. Same with the FAs, although they recently rejected a TA that would have raised their pay significantly.

That's what I thought. It would be a dream come true for US (cough) AWA management to have your contracts thrown out and still get to merge with AA.

I think that this scenario is very much likely. Once they take stuff away from you, US is gonna make (hell) sure that you don't get it back.